BP loads for .303 Brit?

kombi1976

kombi1976

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I'm building a custom rifle on a MkIII Martini Henry action and am interested in duplicating the original .303 MkI BP load.
For those unfamiliar this was a compressed load of 70gn of FFg behind a 215gn RN.
I've never done any BP reloading before, only smokeless stuff, so I'm not familiar with the process at all.
What is the process?
What will I need aside of my standard reloading gear?
Can I use Pyrodex instead as I've heard it's allegedly less corrosive than FFg?
Will I need to pull the guts out of the action each time I fire BP through it in order to clean it properly or will good cleaning of the chamber, bore and muzzle be quite enough?
Does the use of jacketed bullets(in this case Taipan or Woodleigh 215gn RNSNs) change the need for wads, etc.?
I know some of these questions are stupid but I'm a mug as far as BP goes.
 
I would strongly suggest buying "the Paper Jacket" by Paul Mathews. It will tell you all you need to know about loading. The purpose of the over powder wad, in part is to protect the base of the bullet and that is probably not a concern with jacketed bullets. Also perhaps not mentioned in the book is the ues of a blow tube for blowing through the barrel between shots.
As long as you do not spill too much water down in the frame when cleaning, you probably don't have to strip the action every time but probably would not hurt to do it several times per year
Use 3F powder and get the real experience instead of using Pyrodex

cheers mooncoon
 
The blow tube helps keep powder fouling soft. Doubt if there would be a problem with unburnt powder. The BP .303 used a compressed 70gr. pellet of black powder which was inserted in the case before it was formed. There is no way that you will be able to load anywhere near that much black using loose powder in a formed case. A lubed wad under the bullet might reduce fouling, which is going to be significant. It is my understanding that Pyrodex is more corrosive than black. 3F will produce higher pressures than 2F. I suggest you fill a case with black to a level just above the shoulder, and weigh the charge. This will give you an idea of the sort of load you could use.
 
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I'd run FFg (3F is just shorthand for FFFg). 'F' stands for 'Fine', the more 'F's, the finer the powder granules, and the finer granules burn faster due to more surface area. Fine (FFFg) is usually used for pistols due the faster burn, and FFFFg for priming. Fg and FFg will be your most prudent choices.
 
Boom-Boom said:
Hi,

I might be wrong here, but my understanding was that this caliber was loaded with cordite (long spaghetti like gunpowder). :)
Click to expand...

Rest assured, they loaded everything in that old cartg.

A BP .303 brit has been on my to do list for a while. :)

tiriaq said:
It is my understanding that Pyrodex is more corrosive than black.
Click to expand...

You are correct sir. While providing less fouling, pyrodex residue is more corrosive. Be careful when compressing Pyrodex, it compresses a surprising amount. Just roll it in your fingers and it turns to a fine powder.

A great property of blackpowder is that you cannot overfill a case! If you don't leave any airspace in the case, all the excess powder leaves the barrel in a plume of smoke and flame. Which is reason enough to use blackpowder :)

If you do leave airspace in the case, you run a high risk of injury or death. Blackpowder burns too fast, you cannot let it all burn in the case by leaving room, or the pressure can rip the gun apart. Blackpowder needs to be burning up the barrel as it's pushing the projectile.
 
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Boom-Boom said:
Hi,

I might be wrong here, but my understanding was that this caliber was loaded with cordite (long spaghetti like gunpowder). :)
Click to expand...

Cordit was used after the original BP load.
I think in this case , although I may be wrong, that 3F would work, as it is higher pressure, and you will not be able to get 70 grains in there.
maple_leaf_eh has some inside info on the .303 British and black powder loading, hopefully he will see this and give us some insight.

Cat
 
I use 3F in my small cases like 32-40 and 38-55 with no problem. Read Paul Mathews for loading technique. Use a drop tube to get a uniform powder compaction.
If you over compress black powder it becomes a briquet and burns much slower sort of becomes Col Hawker's punting powder :>) While mild compression (or a drop tube) will give a uniform burn, compressing to the max will make the gun shoot as much as 1 foot low at 100 yds.

cheers mooncoon
 
The 303 was designed with smokeless in mind; however; it was ready before smokeless was readily available. Thus, the BP loads.

Are you planning on using jacketed, gas checked, or plain case bullets?
 
catnthehatt said:
Maple_leaf_eh has some inside info on the .303 British and black powder loading, hopefully he will see this and give us some insight.
Cat
Click to expand...

Was asked to jump in here with some horse's mouth experience. My father provoked a new rule in the DCRA Black Powder book to specifically exclude the .303 BR. The rules at first read, 'any cartridge in Cartridges of the World that started out as BP was legit'. He read that as including the .303 BR and cleaned up handsomely - for the first year. I'll ask him his recipe. The DCRA BP guys experimented heavily (they still do) and (as I recall) settled on cast linotype bullets, not wheel weights, and gas checks. The rules allow for firing off a rest and modern sights.

Apparently the favoured powder is Swiss Black Powder, not anything US or preprocessed. It is sold only in the US.

Someone on this forum grumbled about fouling. Most of the guys have a firing drill that includes a length of rubber hose to blow warm breath down the just fired bore, which they then goose once back and forth with a bristly bore brush on a rod. This seems to be the best accuracy 'holder' with the bullet-lube-powder-primer combinations.
 
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Boom-Boom said:
Hi,

I might be wrong here, but my understanding was that this caliber was loaded with cordite (long spaghetti like gunpowder). :)
Click to expand...
Cordite was the primary propellant but between 1888 and 1892 the .303 Brit was loaded with BP powder for the Lee Metford rifle which had shallower rifling designed for this particular propellant.
It was between 1890 and 1892 that the infamous "dum-dum" bullet, a softpoint variant of the original 215gn FMJ, was developed at the Dum Dum arsenal in India in response to complaints that the FMJ bullet punched straight through tribesmen in Africa and failed to expand and knock them down the way the 577/450 had.
This had a short life because the Hague Convention of 1899(not the Geneva Convention which details the treatment of wounded and POWs) banned the use of expanding and fragmenting bullets in warfare.
The change to cordite in 1892 actually necessitated the move to the deeper Enfield type of rifling as the Metford type was eroded quickly by smokeless powder.
It's significant to note that the use of black powder in the original .318" cal 8x57J round used in the German 1888 commission rifle lasted for practically the same period.
 
BP .303" had a glazeboard wad between pdr and bt. There was no lubricant.
Other smallbore military ctg loaded with BP were 8x60R Guedes & Krop, 8x50R Aust and 8x58R Danish. Boers also received some 6.5x55 loaded with BP.
 
the horse's mouth recipe for .303 BP at paper targets

I spoke to my father tonight. He has competed at the elite level from pre-1950 to present. When signing his name, he'll put Olympian 1952 and 1960, and Queen's Medal 5. He's been to Bisley enough times to sit in the front row of the team pictures, is a member of the DCRA Hall of Fame and is a long serving volunteer at the DCRA's most sage levels.

Our conversation was a mixture of serious technology, practical adaptation, match history and gamesmanship (mostly from the others!).

The Brits necked the case AFTER loading the pellet (slightly off cylindrical - maybe with a through hole). The modern solution is a duplex load of 35gr BP 3F and something quicker, and 15gr 3031 or 4895 (military powder) or 15gr of 2400 or 4227. Smokeless against the primer with the BP next to the bullet. The amount of BP is less critical if the load is approaching compression. A 18-24" drop tube will give as much as 1/4" more cartridge capacity. His drop tube is a piece of purple bicyle frame tubing with a set screw into the measure's mouth.

The first year the DCRA was going to shoot 1000yds, my father loaded pulled Mk7 174gr bullets over a 1/2 and 1/2 load. Pure experimentation. That year he used a long barreled pre-WWI Lee Enfield which happened to have a period sight with enough elevation for 1000yds. The rifle and combo won 1st and 2nd, by a considerable margin. Thereafter the rulebook was changed to no bolt actions, nothing smaller than 8mm and specifically not the .303!

Duplex loads require less cleaning than proportionately more BP. Which need a breathe tube to blow 3 or 4 breathes, and as many as three cleaning rods with different brushes and swabs.

Terry
 
Would have been an honour to be able to get in on a conferance call on that one!
It's been about 38 years since I last stood your father's shadow!:)
Fantastic man he is.....
Cat
 
Well, thanks for the tips, maple_leaf_eh.
Sounds like your father really knocked them for 6 with that set up.
Sadly I'm not going to be able to play with a load like that.
The range I'll be shooting on is restricted to rimfire rifles, air rifles, rifles chambered to pistol cartridges under 1250fps and BP muzzleloading and cartridge rifles.
As such a duplex load is against the rules.
I know......it's completely stupid.
Just don't get me started on this one.
I guess I'll be experimenting to find the right load.
BTW, thanks to everyone for their great advice.
 
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