OK I understand that certain slow burning smokeless powder is being used as replacement for BP and I searched but ,1. I am old and probably search the threads wrong and 2. this search function is not that user friendly. Can anyone tell me what THEY use for antique BP replacement powder, and I am not asking you to tell me what to use because you may feel resposible for my doing it wrong etc! I just would like to know what some of you use. I have a couple .44 russian S&W and a couple belgian .450 and .442 also a Webley .476 and a couple rifles, Thanks for your help!
BP replace ment
- Thread starter bobdbldr
- Start date
Alberta Woodsman
CGN Regular
- Location
- In a holler some wheres
Do not use any smokeless in muzzle loaders. Now for cartridge guns I would highly recommend Trail Boss powder. Low pressure and takes up lots of space. I have used it in 45 colt, 45-70, 50-70.
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
Trail Boss seems to be about the best alternative these days for cartridge guns and pistols - wish I could find some data for it for shot shells!
Cat
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
trailboss is not a shotgun powder thats why you can't find shotshell data but jst bout any shotgun powder can be used to make smokeless loads for antique shotguns
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
I realize it's not a shotgun powder, I'm just pizzed because of that!!LOL!
Not all smokeless powder is suitable for low pressure shotgun shells, BTW, and the best stuff is discontinued.
By suitable mean a powder that will develop under 7,000PSI with a one once charge and still be about to develop about 1175 or better FPS velocity.
PB and 4756 can, 7625 as well on some loads, but there are a not a lot of powders that can do that- do you have some that will, BTW other than the discontinued ones?
Sure would be good info to know as I shoot mostly vintage guns these days for hunting and skeet :>)
Cat
Just becarefull with Trail boss if you follow there load data its fine in most of the antique guns but it spikes fast if your even a little over the max load data.
I find unique a good powder i use it in 44 Russians and 455 webley and 45 acp loads 45 schofield and 44 special ect,
I use TB in my 45 schofields but unique is also good.
I find unique a good powder i use it in 44 Russians and 455 webley and 45 acp loads 45 schofield and 44 special ect,
I use TB in my 45 schofields but unique is also good.
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
I'm not sure if your question was directed to me galamb, or to the OP?
If you were asking me, it's because the price of black powder in my neck of the woods is actually pretty danged high, and cleaning my guns is a lot more involved when I use it as opposed to smokeless, especially when I shoot a flat of ammo in an afternoon.
I have a zillion plastic hulls and wads which are okay for smokeless but a gross abomination when used with black!
That being said, I still load black powder into brass cases using fibre wads for my waterfowl and upland hunting loads.
Cat
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
I have not loaded low pressure stuff in a bit I have been using black powder in my old stuff but WAAlite seems to have plenty of low pressure data a lot of it is sub sonic though
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
I find cleaning up after BP much easier then smokeless or pyrodex I just use hot water and a few patches
Well im not sure i agree that BP is easyer clean up than smokeless in antique CF Cartridge handguns.
BP and Pyrodex are way more corosive to the guns bores than smokeless powder way more.
I uses to use both but have not for 8 years as i watched a nice antique gun that had some very minor pitting in its bore get way worse fast useing pyrodex and BP + pyrodex is bad for over presure loads to i stay away from it.
Maby in new guns with shiney new mint bores its OK but i wont use it in any of my antique Cartridge handguns even ones with mint bores.
nor would i recomend anyone else use it either not in antique CF cartridge guns , Of course in percussion revolvers you have no real choice .
You think you have cleaned the bore with that hot water but in and old antique bore the salts find tiny rough spots to get in and start to rust while stored, you can say it isnt so but its true ive seen it after really good cleaning in hot water to so that was it for me i looked into low presure smokeless loads and never went back.
My antique cartridge CF handguns bores only see 4 things.....
Smokeless powders, lead bullets, hopes no9 for cleaning. and Fluid film to oil as its non toxic and leaves a oily film.
BP and Pyrodex are way more corosive to the guns bores than smokeless powder way more.
I uses to use both but have not for 8 years as i watched a nice antique gun that had some very minor pitting in its bore get way worse fast useing pyrodex and BP + pyrodex is bad for over presure loads to i stay away from it.
Maby in new guns with shiney new mint bores its OK but i wont use it in any of my antique Cartridge handguns even ones with mint bores.
nor would i recomend anyone else use it either not in antique CF cartridge guns , Of course in percussion revolvers you have no real choice .
You think you have cleaned the bore with that hot water but in and old antique bore the salts find tiny rough spots to get in and start to rust while stored, you can say it isnt so but its true ive seen it after really good cleaning in hot water to so that was it for me i looked into low presure smokeless loads and never went back.
My antique cartridge CF handguns bores only see 4 things.....
Smokeless powders, lead bullets, hopes no9 for cleaning. and Fluid film to oil as its non toxic and leaves a oily film.
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It's my opinion that a pitted bore can hold black powder fouling and lead more than a shiny one. Water gets the fouling, but won't touch the lead which might be covering the fouling. Some pitted bores shoot well if the bullet fits properly, but if not, you might have a lead mine.
- Location
- Not really sure.
There is a reason why many of these old timers have pitted bores, it's hard to believe in a time when your tools were your life and you worked your arse off to pay for them that you would some how care less about said tools. I'm thinking it has much more to do with just hostile propellants.
I pretty much just carefully run light smokeless loads now.
Accurate 5744 works nice in Win 1886 45-90, 45-70 and 40-82.
Re: comments about why the "old timers" didn't clean their BP rifle barrels scrupulously is simple :they had no idea of the long term effect BP fouling would cause in terms of corrosion of barrels over an extended period of time ...
Re: comments about why the "old timers" didn't clean their BP rifle barrels scrupulously is simple :they had no idea of the long term effect BP fouling would cause in terms of corrosion of barrels over an extended period of time ...
- Location
- Not really sure.
I find that very hard to believe considering the effects would be seen in hours upon battlefields using BP in muzzle loaders hundreds of years prior to these said guns. The guns I have seen and held were produced during the industrial revolution.
You are also referring to extended periods of time, that is nullified. This pitting starts suddenly, it's bang right in your face oh #### corrosion, it happens quickly and continues from there.
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- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
I have to clean my guns after two or three rounds of skeet or trap, there is so much crud in them that the chokes tighten up if I am using black powder.
If a guy is only shooting a few rounds, I can see where black powder might no be too bad, but even cleaning the cases after 5 or six rounds on the skeet field is a big job using black powder as opposed to if they are loaded with PB.
Cat
If a guy is only shooting a few rounds, I can see where black powder might no be too bad, but even cleaning the cases after 5 or six rounds on the skeet field is a big job using black powder as opposed to if they are loaded with PB.
Cat
For the handgun cartridges I don't think it's a case of a slow powder. Rather it's a case of finding one which does well with the small dusting of a charge used to hold the pressure in check. I know from personal use that Bullseye and Tightgroup do well with small and light charges. These two remain consistent. And that's not something that can be said for a lot of other powders. I've only used some really OLD Unique but all the recipes given for it suggests that it does well with light charges in big casings as well. When trying to pick one to work with take note of the muzzle velocity vs peak pressure given in the data. Ideally you'll opt for the one or two that deliver decent but not necessarily top velocity for the least pressure.
For rifle cartridges I've played a little with low pressure .38-55 using 5744, 4427 and 3031. I've loaded up and shot a few of each with good initial results. And all three have lots of recommendations on the web for this style of low pressure black powder like peak pressure use. I just need to load up more and try them all to see which the rifle really likes now.
For rifle cartridges I've played a little with low pressure .38-55 using 5744, 4427 and 3031. I've loaded up and shot a few of each with good initial results. And all three have lots of recommendations on the web for this style of low pressure black powder like peak pressure use. I just need to load up more and try them all to see which the rifle really likes now.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
i have never had rust issues with real BP pyrodex on the other hand i stay away from it unless its a shotgun
American Pioneer or Shockeys Gold is my second choice next to black powder for cartridge.
Shockeys Gold is a little more refined. Costs more.
Excellent results in my Sniders, Martini Enfields and handgun.
I use liquid alox for bullet lube with American Pioneer - Shockeys Gold.
Cleans up real easy.
It can also be used in shotgun.
Shockeys Gold is a little more refined. Costs more.
Excellent results in my Sniders, Martini Enfields and handgun.
I use liquid alox for bullet lube with American Pioneer - Shockeys Gold.
Cleans up real easy.
It can also be used in shotgun.
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