Brain storming about a build on a P14 action. Feed back and ideas welcome.

dthunter

dthunter

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Hello guys! I have a P14 rifle that I want to put a custom flair to.

I am planning/hoping to put a match quality barrel, medium taper, about 24" long. This barrel will be in .308, and 1:12" Twist rate.

The cartridge I want to chamber it for is 30-30 winchester.

Why? Because .312 diameter bullets are harder to find lately, and I have minimal brass available for the 303 British (3-400 cases).

The .308 diameter has a huge variety of bullets available, and I have well over 1500 cases available for the 30-30 winchester.


Here are my comparisons/thoughts:


A) The magazine for the 303 is a very close match for the taper of the 30-30 Winchester. The shoulder diameters of both the 30-30 Winchester, and the 303 British are both .401". The cases are obviously shorter with the 30-30 winchester, but fit the P14's floor plate taper perfectly. No modifications required there. And no feeding issues should arrise.

B) Rim thickness is "SUPPOSED" to be 0.084" for the 303 British, and 0.063" for the 30-30 Winchester. Upon ACTUAL measuring of about 20 cases of each caliber (303British & 30-30 Winchester) There was only 0.002" difference or less.

C) Both are rimmed cases, with the 30-30 Winchester rim being 0.034" narrower (30-30 Win. were 0.500" in diameter), and the 303 British rims were at 0.530" diameter.

I function tested 10, cases from the 30-30 winchester (With only a 165grain sierra btsp seated in an unprimed case, and seated to the bottom of the neck). They fed and ejected without a hitch when cycled at a steady firm rate.

The only failures that occurred were when the bolt was pulled back gently/slowly. The case would just come 1/2 way out of the chamber and sit there. I am thinking this is due to the chamber being much larger in the P14 than a 30-30 winchester case, and the case just sits down at the bottom of the 303 british chamber, and slides off the extractor rail when pulled slowly rearward.


So this is my project idea. Am I missing anything obvious that will make this project more difficult than I anticipate? Thanks for your time!
 
Keep in mind it will cost a considerable amount...more than a new 30-30 rifle would cost... and have very little resale value.
 
guntech said:
Keep in mind it will cost a considerable amount...more than a new 30-30 rifle would cost... and have very little resale value.
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You got a point Guntech. A custom barreled job should cost around 5-600 dollars +/_ . I am ok with that.

A new 30-30 would cost close to that, BUT, This 30-30 will be in a heavy match barreled, bolt action rifle, where I can use any .308 bullet Style or weight available.

Resale is of next to no importance to me in this project. It is merely for fun.


Guntech, do you think the existing extractor should function fine for this modification?

I know you have lots of experience building rifles. If I move forward with this project, do you know of any things I may have trouble with?
 
I have stayed away from military actions for most of my career due to the amount of labour and the limited amount customers are willing to pay. It takes a lot of time and skill to make a good looking functioning rifle from 98's and P14/17's. I imagine the extractor could be altered to work.
 
If I can suggest, like Guntech, I wouldn't put the money you will be spending in another direction.
Sell that gun or action an purchase a Rem or Win action an use it for a build.
Your looking at about $650 more or less for a custom barrel installed, which includes a finished barrel chambered etc.
and then the cost of what ever stock you may want.
When complete you have a gun that's got resale value to recover some of what you have invested.
It is different I guess if you can do all the work yourself and stuck on your action.
sst
 
I had a P17 converted to 308 and long action with a short action case. It was like any day you can eject now. I didnt get much for it.
 
your extractor can be modified to work. I recently converted a P-14 to a 7WSM. Whilst it performed very well in the end, printing neat little groupings, there was a considerable amount of work required to get it to feed reliably and consistently out of the internal magazine. Many more hours than I could reasonably bill the client for and in the end way more than he would have been willing to pay.
 
The chamber is the least of your worries. If you have to cut steel on either a P'14 or M17 receiver, you'd better have patience. Those bastages are HARD! There are oldtime gunsmith tricks to spot anneal where you want to drill a scope base hole, but these are tough for any mortal to do right.

The barrel is not necessarily as hard. If you like the slope on the chamber, the P'14 has the more tolerant breech face profile of the two. You could replicate the extractor cone with a lathe or a patient hand filing.

The extractor is a huge claw that grasps the bolt body on a stud. The front end could be bent in (I suppose), but it too is hard steel and you might not be able to bend it effectively.

Finally, there is a good point above about tweaking the feed cycle. I had a .300 WM converted M17, that the seller warned me had been worked over by two thoughtful shooters, one of whom was a skilled gunsmith, because it wasn't feeding reliably. I don't know they had to do, but the new case and rim profile will need to be tested and tried again and again to get right. Slow motion is not the same as deliberate hand motions done forcefully.
 
dthunter said:
So this is my project idea. Am I missing anything obvious that will make this project more difficult than I anticipate? Thanks for your time!
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A new barrel will cost you between $300-$500 plus gunsmithing time to thread, chamber and install. Then you have all the other associated fooling around to get the rifle to feed and eject properly. Realistically you will end up $1500-$1800 into a bolt rifle that will be unsellable at $250 asking.

If you're horny to do it and you have the money to piss away, then fly at it. Other than that there is no sensible reason, or even rational reason, to pursue this project.
 
A not uncommon case is simply the 303 case necked down to hold .308 bullets. A simple rebarrel and the action is designed to feed this case shape. Lee Collet die for the 303 case with a 30 cal. center pin shoulds make reloading easy. I know its fun to do something different but this would be easier and would work well.
 
J.V. Howe did a lot of these conversions and one is presently listed in .220 Swift at near $7000 USD. The P-14 was worth around $1700 USD in today's money on the original military contract. By way of it not being sellable at $250, who knows? But I think a lot of these old actions that people and nations depended on with their lives are built a heck of a lot better than given credit for, and held side by side with modern actions, maybe not so easy to work on (because they're built so well), but stronger and more likely to succeed in a pinch. Build it slow, maybe it'll cost $1000, but use it for twenty years, that's $50 a year, with the satisfaction of knowing it's yours.
 
Nothing to add except that the M17 action is massively stronger than you need for 30-30 and has longer bolt travel than necessary.

The Krag advice was good IMO. Strong enough with normal loads, very slick bolt, no feed problems, mag can be topped up easily, action can be re-cocked without opening the bolt. Open sights which may or may not be your taste, but you probably won't want the ears and aperture sight of the M17.

Better safety on the M17 of course.

ht tp://candrsenal.com/a-quick-and-dirty-guide-military-krag-jorgensen-rifles/
 
BigUglyMan said:
A new barrel will cost you between $300-$500 plus gunsmithing time to thread, chamber and install. Then you have all the other associated fooling around to get the rifle to feed and eject properly. Realistically you will end up $1500-$1800 into a bolt rifle that will be unsellable at $250 asking.

If you're horny to do it and you have the money to piss away, then fly at it. Other than that there is no sensible reason, or even rational reason, to pursue this project.
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Thanks for your input. Its a bit harsh telling me that my idea is nonsense! LOL! Your points are taken though.

Never forget one mans project can mean the world to him, but not to others.

I like to try different things, just because I can.

Resale value for this project is of no interest to me what so, ever.
 
dthunter said:
Thanks for your input. Its a bit harsh telling me that my idea is nonsense! LOL! Your points are taken though.

Never forget one mans project can mean the world to him, but not to others.

I like to try different things, just because I can.

Resale value for this project is of no interest to me what so, ever.
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I'm harsh sometimes. Just because I care and detest sugar-coating.
 
I do my own 'smithing, so labour costs are irrelevant. But if the meter is running, some projects are simply not practical.
 
BigUglyMan said:
I'm harsh sometimes. Just because I care and detest sugar-coating.
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Ha!HA! I hear yah! "Sometimes" people need to hear a persons point of view to make them think. I did ask for peoples thoughts, and I got just that.

But I have to say, I am looking forward to this project, no matter where it takes me!

Only by allowing our imagination to run, and the willingness to try things out of the norm, will we learn things of value in this sport.

I have made my fair number of custom rifles with my friend Bevan King, and I learned allot from him over the years! Not all projects are practical, but all are fun and rewarding in themselves.

My goal at this time is not to obtain the easiest conversion for this rifle. I want to make this rifle more useful in my personal arsenal. If this rifle is rebarreled to 30-30, its because I have enough loading supplies/options to facilitate some serious fun for myself and my boys in their future. I cast many bullets in .308 caliber, and have a significant supply of brass. So many powders are useful in the 30-30, that it makes it a no brainer for me to experiment with.

So many people have suggested me to try the 30-40 kraig route. But logic, (to me), dictates that brass availability is much less for that cartridge than the common 303 British. I don't even remember the last time I even saw a 30-40 kraig case! LOL!

As far as feeding dependability, I have minimal concerns. I have already proven basically 99% dependability for function if I chamber/eject rounds deliberately. I installed a new, P17 extractor the other day and function tested for feeding. Close to perfect, even on a gentle extraction. Granted that I could not lock the bolt due to the extractor size not matching the existing extractor slot in the original barrel. No big deal, because I will have the extractor groove cut in the new barrel, whenever I decide to install it.

The beauty of chambering the custom barrel in 30-30 Winchester, is that I can choose to re-chamber to any larger 30 caliber cartridge in the future.
 
gunpro said:
your extractor can be modified to work. I recently converted a P-14 to a 7WSM. Whilst it performed very well in the end, printing neat little groupings, there was a considerable amount of work required to get it to feed reliably and consistently out of the internal magazine. Many more hours than I could reasonably bill the client for and in the end way more than he would have been willing to pay.
Click to expand...


For sure! The case diameter and taper being much different for the WSM family than what the original magazine floor plate was designed for.


In my case, The 30-30 Winchester case dimensions are shorter, but relatively similar to the 303 British. The Shoulder diameter is the same, but the location of the .401" diameter of the shoulder is .4" shorter on the 30-30 case.

I have a spare P14 floor plate that I will experiment with just for interest sake.
 
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