Brake vs No Brake

Tokay444 said:
Harmonics changing POI is a theory, and mostly myth. What's actually occuring in this case is a redirecting of gasses.
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Not true at all. Harmonics changes POI a massive amount. The thinner and longer the barrel the more it shifts.

Strap a magnetopeed at the end of your barrel, you impact will shift upwards, a massive amount in a long, light contour barrel.

Same thing with pressure on the barrel. POI goes the opposite way the pressure is applied. Rest the end of your barrel on a wall then shoot. Your POI goes up. Put pressure on the right, your POI moves left. That's why a cheap "floating stock" that comes into contact with the barrel, especially while using a bipod, changes where your impact is.
 
Tokay444 said:
Directing the gasses upward relieves pressure above the bullet, while it's still present under the bullet, thusly pushing it up.
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And what about the instances where adding a brake moves the point of impact downward or left or right? I had a BOSS system on a rifle and simply adjusting the BOSS changed the point of impact high/low, or left/right. And the BOSS CR attatchment moved the point of impact, without even having a brake.
 
pathfinder76 said:
Do you run brakes on any of your rifles?
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No I do not have any rifles with brakes on them. I would downsize in caliber before using a brake.
There is quite a discussion on Rokslide and some related podcasts about the effects on shooter ability and accuracy due to both recoil and muzzle blast. The Cole’s notes version is that any reduction in recoil and muzzle blast corresponds with an increase in accuracy. It doesn’t matter what skill level the shooter is the correlation is there. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT GOOD SHOOTERS CANT SHOOT HEAVY RECOILING ROUNDS. It simply means that even those shooter that can shoot large calibers will shoot them better when the rifle is suppressed

The easiest button to push is to shoot a lighter recoiling round but one of the most effective buttons to push is to suppress the rifle. The elimination or near elimination of muzzle blast directly enables better shooting. In all honesty at this point in time every rifle should b suppressed unless the owner doesn’t wish to have one on for esthetic purposes.

To my earlier post. I wasn’t criticizing people for using a brake. If you like it, fill your boots. Any reduction in recoil is a positive in my books. My point was that, at this point in time we should be hanging suppressors on our rifles and noting any shift in POI.
 
leveractionjunkie said:
The Cole’s notes version is that any reduction in recoil and muzzle blast corresponds with an increase in accuracy. It doesn’t matter what skill level the shooter is the correlation is there. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT GOOD SHOOTERS CANT SHOOT HEAVY RECOILING ROUNDS. It simply means that even those shooter that can shoot large calibers will shoot them better when the rifle is suppressed
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Truth
 
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Denver Steve said:
Not true at all. Harmonics changes POI a massive amount. The thinner and longer the barrel the more it shifts.

Strap a magnetopeed at the end of your barrel, you impact will shift upwards, a massive amount in a long, light contour barrel.

Same thing with pressure on the barrel. POI goes the opposite way the pressure is applied. Rest the end of your barrel on a wall then shoot. Your POI goes up. Put pressure on the right, your POI moves left. That's why a cheap "floating stock" that comes into contact with the barrel, especially while using a bipod, changes where your impact is.
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Isolate that same Magnetospeed off the barrel as I used to with an MK Machining mount, and the bullet rises the exact same way. The pressure waves reflect off the bayonet and push the bullet up. Schlieren tests proved this.
https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...rber/639edfeba66d1cfe71f878fbd6b49d5c67096a88
1793817108011.png
 
Rman said:
It isn’t a theory or a myth at all. Where did you get this info from?
Anything significantly gas related, happens after the bullet has left the barrel.

R.
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It's theory. When a rocket scientist like Bryan Litz says it's theory, I perk up and take interest. When he proves that barrel harmonics with amplitudes great enough to vary POI are theory, I believe him.
 
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stubblejumper said:
And what about the instances where adding a brake moves the point of impact downward or left or right? I had a BOSS system on a rifle and simply adjusting the BOSS changed the point of impact high/low, or left/right. And the BOSS CR attatchment moved the point of impact, without even having a brake.
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Any actual proof of that, or just an anecdote?
 
Tokay444 said:
It's theory. When a rocket scientist like Bryan Litz says it's theory, I perk up and take interest. When he proves that barrel harmonics with amplitudes great enough to vary POI are theory, I believe him.
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Where does he say this? And more importantly... exactly what does he say about barrel harmonics with amplitudes great enough to vary POI are theory?
You do realize this is exactly how barrel tuners, etc work? Or is that just theory as well?
And a Magnetospeed isn't a brake... is it? Anything that solid, that close to the bore line upon exit would so the same thing, and not because of gasses as you originally claimed?

R.
 
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Rman said:
Where does he say this? And more importantly... exactly what does he say about barrel harmonics with amplitudes great enough to vary POI are theory?
You do realize this is exactly how barrel tuners, etc work? Or is that just theory as well?
And a Magnetospeed isn't a brake... is it? Anything that solid, that close to the bore line upon exit would so the same thing, and not because of gasses as you originally claimed?

R.
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You're making a bold assumption that barrel tuners work. They don't. Litz and Hornady proved that as well.
 
leveractionjunkie said:
No I do not have any rifles with brakes on them. I would downsize in caliber before using a brake.
There is quite a discussion on Rokslide and some related podcasts about the effects on shooter ability and accuracy due to both recoil and muzzle blast. The Cole’s notes version is that any reduction in recoil and muzzle blast corresponds with an increase in accuracy. It doesn’t matter what skill level the shooter is the correlation is there. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT GOOD SHOOTERS CANT SHOOT HEAVY RECOILING ROUNDS. It simply means that even those shooter that can shoot large calibers will shoot them better when the rifle is suppressed

The easiest button to push is to shoot a lighter recoiling round but one of the most effective buttons to push is to suppress the rifle. The elimination or near elimination of muzzle blast directly enables better shooting. In all honesty at this point in time every rifle should b suppressed unless the owner doesn’t wish to have one on for esthetic purposes.

To my earlier post. I wasn’t criticizing people for using a brake. If you like it, fill your boots. Any reduction in recoil is a positive in my books. My point was that, at this point in time we should be hanging suppressors on our rifles and noting any shift in POI.
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I don’t use breaks and never will.
 
Rman said:
No assumptions... provide facts...

R.
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While I haven't read it, in In Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting, Volume III (2022) Litz and his team shot 1800 rounds through 4 rifles with tuners and said there was no improvement to baseline accuracy

BUT....he did also say that adding weight to the muzzle showed some benefit and later clarified that the lighter the barrel, the better that potentially worked

So its pretty hard to say "Litz debunked them"
 
"I think the presence of a weight/mass on the end of a barrel, especially a light contour barrel, can possibly improve precision. However, we've seen no evidence that small movements of that mass matter."
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My understanding of the above is that the weight itself matters a lot more than the adjustments/moving its position.

In other words...yeah a tuner can work lol
 
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