Brand Loyalty, love/hate...etc

[Brian46]

Well ya, obviously.

we rarely see any negative experience last on this forum now without it being shuffled away or minimised to the point that any new member reading it is led to believe it is a one in a million chance now, what is a new section going to do?

 

[IchBinEinSniper]

Don't even get me started on range reports. Sometimes a simple report gets a lot of thumbs up, and sometimes they get torn apart for not having recorded th exact 1/10th of a second of each shot, records of the barrel temperature before every shot, 20 pictures, targets posted, day and time recorded, video of the shooting, video of the weather off of the expensive Kestral, and on & on. I think that if someone takes the time to make any report you look at the poster doing the report, and add that to the stack of reports. Don't get mad when they make a report and don't do it your way: your way isn't the only way. What's the brown fan count now?

What gets me about the range reports is how many of them are so obviously bogus...or are the culmination of luck. When a rifle puts a 2 to 3 round "grouping", ONCE, sub MOA, when the other 99 times you have been keeping track, it gets 4 MOA...that's a 4 MOA gun. You have people on this board claiming better than is mechanically possible with their black rifles...

Then you have the haters the other way...blank rifle has MOA of broadside of barn and I know because I read as much x number of times on the Internet.

Oh, well...what can you do? I still enjoy coming here and giving my crappy 2 cents where possible...

 

[Brian46]

You have people on this board claiming better than is mechanically possible with their black rifles...

I got that for a target from my RFB that I posted, after that went on for a while someone who did accuracy testing of the RFB who appears to hold more respect on this forum posted his results that mirror mine and all of a sudden the nay sayers went quiet?

Quite often you see people post legitimate problems or findings that just get discredited or minimised to the point of something non existent

 

[effinggoof]

If you think the gun world has fanboys and haters, the motorcycle world is worse. Everyone is proud of what they own, and wants validation of their choice in gun/bike/tools.

THIS

Way too many people, almost none of whom have any real investment in a brand, have somehow managed to get way too emotionally attatched to firearms, accessories, trainers and shooting styles, so they get personally offended if you have a different opinion.

 

[cr5]

We would end up with 3 pages of stickies just to get into the new posts. Everyone is going to want one for their brand.

I would just like to see people shut the hell up if they haven't actually handled, shot, owned or witnessed a brand in action. There are so many posts on here where some guy read some review somewhere or heard from a friend of a friend that brand x is nothing but trouble or built like crap and then post as if they had brand x blow up in their hands and spew about what trash it is.
If it's second hand info then you have no right to post how crappy something is.
People also seem to forget that for every one thread on a forum where someone is complaining about brand x that there are probably hundreds out there that are perfectly happy with theirs and couldn't be bothered to come on a forum just to say how well it's working. They are too busy shooting it and enjoying it to care.
There are also the people that are just too plain stupid to learn how to operate their new rifle and don't bother learning how to adjust it or how to maintain it before they come on here and bash it for not working. I don't know how many times I've watched a youtube video about someone having problems with an RFB complaining about what junk it is when all they needed to do was understand how the gas system works and adjust it properly.

There are of course legitimate issues with firearms but just because you got one that had problems doesn't mean they are all garbage and you don't need to come on here and condemn the company and save us all from buying one. Auto manufacturers have the odd vehicle that slips through QC and then gives it's new owner problems. It's how these companies support the customer after the sale that determines if we should lose faith in the brand or not.

 

[Shin_Gunto]

We would end up with 3 pages of stickies just to get into the new posts. Everyone is going to want one for their brand.

I would just like to see people shut the hell up if they haven't actually handled, shot, owned or witnessed a brand in action. There are so many posts on here where some guy read some review somewhere or heard from a friend of a friend that brand x is nothing but trouble or built like crap and then post as if they had brand x blow up in their hands and spew about what trash it is.
If it's second hand info then you have no right to post how crappy something is.
People also seem to forget that for every one thread on a forum where someone is complaining about brand x that there are probably hundreds out there that are perfectly happy with theirs and couldn't be bothered to come on a forum just to say how well it's working. They are too busy shooting it and enjoying it to care.
There are also the people that are just too plain stupid to learn how to operate their new rifle and don't bother learning how to adjust it or how to maintain it before they come on here and bash it for not working. I don't know how many times I've watched a youtube video about someone having problems with an RFB complaining about what junk it is when all they needed to do was understand how the gas system works and adjust it properly.

There are of course legitimate issues with firearms but just because you got one that had problems doesn't mean they are all garbage and you don't need to come on here and condemn the company and save us all from buying one. Auto manufacturers have the odd vehicle that slips through QC and then gives it's new owner problems. It's how these companies support the customer after the sale that determines if we should lose faith in the brand or not.

So your suggesting people know nothing, make broad assumptions, are stupid, and should keep quiet about quality concerns.

Why are you participating in a discussion forum, if you only believe in discussion on your terms?

 

[Brian46]

There are of course legitimate issues with firearms but just because you got one that had problems doesn't mean they are all garbage and you don't need to come on here and condemn the company and save us all from buying one. Auto manufacturers have the odd vehicle that slips through QC and then gives it's new owner problems. It's how these companies support the customer after the sale that determines if we should lose faith in the brand or not.

T97 is the most recent one I can't understand, the mass amount of people with problems and issues is literally being swept away by those few that got one that runs and doesn't have defects every time we see a post about someone having issues.

The manufacturer has also not offered any support so far that I have seen posted either.

 

[00aught]

We would end up with 3 pages of stickies just to get into the new posts. Everyone is going to want one for their brand.

I would just like to see people shut the hell up if they haven't actually handled, shot, owned or witnessed a brand in action. There are so many posts on here where some guy read some review somewhere or heard from a friend of a friend that brand x is nothing but trouble or built like crap and then post as if they had brand x blow up in their hands and spew about what trash it is.
If it's second hand info then you have no right to post how crappy something is.
People also seem to forget that for every one thread on a forum where someone is complaining about brand x that there are probably hundreds out there that are perfectly happy with theirs and couldn't be bothered to come on a forum just to say how well it's working. They are too busy shooting it and enjoying it to care.
There are also the people that are just too plain stupid to learn how to operate their new rifle and don't bother learning how to adjust it or how to maintain it before they come on here and bash it for not working. I don't know how many times I've watched a youtube video about someone having problems with an RFB complaining about what junk it is when all they needed to do was understand how the gas system works and adjust it properly.

There are of course legitimate issues with firearms but just because you got one that had problems doesn't mean they are all garbage and you don't need to come on here and condemn the company and save us all from buying one. Auto manufacturers have the odd vehicle that slips through QC and then gives it's new owner problems. It's how these companies support the customer after the sale that determines if we should lose faith in the brand or not.

If I was about to buy a rifle I don't care if someone has never owned or shot one before. If they have read or know a friend that has had an issue with their rifle I'd want to know about it.. As I feel most people would

 

[cr5]

So your suggesting people know nothing, make broad assumptions, are stupid, and should keep quiet about quality concerns.

Why are you participating in a discussion forum, if you only believe in discussion on your terms?

No, I'm saying that people that haven't ACTUALLY EXPERIENCED something should shut their mouth. If all someone has to go on is what they heard from a guy or what they read in some other thread or on some other forum and then talk like they are experienced with the item in question then their opinion doesn't mean sh!t. If all someone has is what they read somewhere then they should state where they got their information.

The people who OWN the firearm in question or HAVE ACTUALLY USED it are the only ones who should be sharing their EXPERIENCE.

Opinion based on what someone read somewhere written by some other armchair special ops super soldier living in his moms basement at 40 years old is not worth anything and shouldn't be used to praise or condemn a product.

But I read it on the internet, it must be true.


edit, I actually think there are a lot of very knowledgeable people on this site, the problem is that the good information is so diluted by having to sift through so much crap written by people who just don't have a clue that it becomes frustrating.
Luckily I've been on here long enough that I've figured out who a few of those good sources of info are and also which posts to skip as soon as I see who wrote them.

 

[cr5]

If I was about to buy a rifle I don't care if someone has never owned or shot one before. If they have read or know a friend that has had an issue with their rifle I'd want to know about it.. As I feel most people would

Of course, but would you want to know that the info you were getting was accurate?
I heard from a guy that heard from a guy hardly makes for valuable information about a product.

When I'm about to buy a firearm I look for a few things.
1- Brand. Buying a quality brand like HK, Noveske, LMT, etc pretty much means your not going to have to worry.
2- Warranty and if it's transferable.
3- I check the internet and use some google-fu and read up on it as much as I can from as many sources as I can.
4- CGN reviews and general threads wherever someone mentions one of them.
5- CGN EE. If there are a lot of them up for sale a month after they are released and there are a bunch sitting on the shelf at the local gun shop I wonder what's going on.

I don't give a crap if billy-bob bought one and couldn't figure out how to work it and then came on here and started ranting and raving about what a piece of crap it is without even bothering to contact the retailer or manufacturer for help first either.

 

[infidel29]

anyways, I happen to enjoy my winchester rifles, probably for the strong association with the wild west history. same for my antiques, also because of the history behind them. who cares that they shoot mostly anemic cartridges, and have to use lead only......

 

[Shin_Gunto]

The way I see brand loyalty; Im loyal to any company putting out a quality product, have good customer service, and stand behind what they sell with an ironclad warranty to cover an inevitable lemon.

The market is so flooded with companies selling the same product, I cant fathom why people continue to support, apologize for, and make excuses for repeated bad quality and support.

 

[cr5]

The way I see brand loyalty; Im loyal to any company putting out a quality product, have good customer service, and stand behind what they sell with an ironclad warranty to cover an inevitable lemon.

The market is so flooded with companies selling the same product, I cant fathom why people continue to support, apologize for, and make excuses for repeated bad quality and support.

Agree'd, but we need to know if it's repeated bad quality and support or just the same story regurgitated over and over which is why I say that unless someone has had direct experience with a product they shouldn't post positive or negative comments about it without at least disclosing that they only heard what they are sharing and that they haven't actually experienced it themselves.

Everyone is free to form their own opinion about a product and avoid it based on what they've read or heard but they shouldn't start bashing a product online and telling others not to buy it when they haven't even held one in their own hands.

 

[mg4201]

Agree'd, but we need to know if it's repeated bad quality and support or just the same story regurgitated over and over which is why I say that unless someone has had direct experience with a product they shouldn't post positive or negative comments about it without at least disclosing that they only heard what they are sharing and that they haven't actually experienced it themselves.

Everyone is free to form their own opinion about a product and avoid it based on what they've read or heard but they shouldn't start bashing a product online and telling others not to buy it when they haven't even held one in their own hands.

I disagree. Some products are so badly made that stories supported by pictures of defects are very hard to ignore. When repeated issues continually occur with certain products despite assurances from the manufacturer that the problems have been solved in "this generation" of products. I don't have to personaly experience crap parts to know not to buy them.

 

[cr5]

I disagree. Some products are so badly made that stories supported by pictures of defects are very hard to ignore. When repeated issues continually occur with certain products despite assurances from the manufacturer that the problems have been solved in "this generation" of products. I don't have to personaly experience crap parts to know not to buy them.

You didn't read my post very well did you?
I said we need to know if it's repeated bad quality and support (as in has happened to many people) OR just the same story (one person having a problem) regurgitated over and over. If it's that latter then it's only one rifle with a problem but said over and over by the sheeple making it seem like many different rifles with the same issue. Having one lemon out of ten thousand isn't that bad. Having one lemon out of ten is a problem.
There is a big difference and that's why I think that people who have only heard something and not experienced it themselves shouldn't comment on it as being good or bad. People are free to say they heard there were issues but a lot of people on here seem to hear something and form an opinion of it then post telling about how terrible a product is.
If you've heard something is bad and you don't want to take the risk then that's up to you but simply reading something on the internet doesn't make it fact and doesn't justify bashing a product you may or may not actually know anything about since you are basing your opinion on someone else's rant about how their item was sh!t. Maybe they just didn't know how to use it or they messed it up when they took it apart to clean the factory grease out of it.

 

[Hitzy]

You didn't read my post very well did you?
I said we need to know if it's repeated bad quality and support (as in has happened to many people) OR just the same story (one person having a problem) regurgitated over and over. If it's that latter then it's only one rifle with a problem but said over and over by the sheeple making it seem like many different rifles with the same issue. Having one lemon out of ten thousand isn't that bad. Having one lemon out of ten is a problem.
There is a big difference and that's why I think that people who have only heard something and not experienced it themselves shouldn't comment on it as being good or bad. People are free to say they heard there were issues but a lot of people on here seem to hear something and form an opinion of it then post telling about how terrible a product is.
If you've heard something is bad and you don't want to take the risk then that's up to you but simply reading something on the internet doesn't make it fact and doesn't justify bashing a product you may or may not actually know anything about since you are basing your opinion on someone else's rant about how their item was sh!t. Maybe they just didn't know how to use it or they messed it up when they took it apart to clean the factory grease out of it.

Or maybe the brand new bolt in the brand new BCG blew up on the 3rd shot fired....

 

[mg4201]

I think we are saying the same thing. Also I have seen evidence of the problems in person. I am going to end this here because no good will come of it.