brand new new vaquero's

[leveractiontodd]

Hello from ontario , I have a new match set of new vaquero's ,1 works fine the other after about 30 shots started randomly misfiring every 4 to 5 shot with absolutely no touch on primer and the ones that do fire look fine.

 

[silverfoxdj]

Sounds like the pin is hanging up for what ever reason.. did you thoroughly clean them before firing?

 

[leveractiontodd]

I did not disassemble but that sounds like good advice i will completely disassemble both guns making sure theres no rough edges
I appreciate the help Todd

 

[fingers284]

I would suggest you have a timing problem if the gun fires sometime but no pin strike on the primer the other times. look at the brass that misfired very carefully for a pin imprint on the brass, one side of the primer or the other, this would indicate weather the gun is over or under rotating the cyl.

As well watch the cyl locking bolt as it comes up into the cyl notch as you bring the gun to full #### (with empty gun of course, unless you have some dummy rnds ). You may notice the cyl not rotating enough for the locking bolt to engage the cyl notch or rotating past the notch. The dummy rounds will help replicate what your gun is doing, the weight of the shells will change the "roll" characteristics of the cyl., Ive even seen SAA clones that the position of empty to loaded rounds will make a difference in how the cyl "swings" and which chamber will "skip". As well, try to replicate your normal cocking speed while doing the test.

I usually see the ^^^ on guns that have been slicked up to one degree or another and usually when one part of the gun has been well slicked up but another corresponding part hasn't been equally looked after. The same thing could happen in a factory fresh critter as well if one part is under or over spec'ed.

 

[leveractiontodd]

After reading your post i had a real good look at those bullets with a very large lit magnifying glass and they look untouched. I haven't figured out the transfer bar yet but it's the one thing between the hammer and the firing pin .Any thoughts on it

 

[fingers284]

The transfer bar is mechanically connected to the trigger & hammer, if it works some of the time theoretically it should work every time....theoretically... LOL.

Again with an empty gun, thumb the hammer back, the transfer bar should come up to at least 1/2 covering the end of the firing pin when at full ####. now with a small screwdriver or similar tool (pen will work) reach it in and push on the transfer bar, if it wiggles and moves up against the pin freely ( if you push it in far enough to push the firing pin, you should only notice a slight spring pressure from the firing pin return spring) it is probably going to work all right. Next, hold the hammer back with your thumb and pull the trigger, the transfer bar should now come up to almost completely cover the firing pin. continue holding the trigger in the firing position, now let the hammer come ahead slowly... watch the transfer bar, it should stay in the "up" position until the hammer reaches it. do not release the trigger yet, now look between the cyl and recoil plate, you should see a fair amount of firing pin protrusion into the area where the shell rim would be. Now release the trigger, you should hear a slight mechanical sound as the trigger spring returns the trigger ahead and withdraws the transfer bar. The firing pin should disappear back into its roost. If that is the case, all is well in that part of the gun it would appear to me.

Now getting back to my first post & your answer that you can't see any firing pin dents in the brass may be an indication that "over rotation" is still the problem but more pronounced than usually is the case. The cyl may be rotating enough past "lock up" far enough that the firing pin is hitting between the cartridges... so another test... Open the loading gate & rotate the cyl, do you hear a distinct "click" as each cyl ratchet notch is passed over the "hand". As well, you should feel a slight resistance when the cyl is rotated past each notch (from the hand spring pushing the hand against the cyl). This resistance is required to keep the cyl from a total free-wheel rotation as the gun is cocked. Without this resistance, the speed that the cyl rotates as you #### the gun can be faster than the locking bolt will come up to lock it.

 

[leveractiontodd]

Sure enough it is over rotating so far on the exact same cyl hole that i thought it was under rotating. It acts up about every third time around. So i switched the cyl with the other vaquero now i can't get either gun to act up .This is pulling the hammer and easing forward ,after switching back it immediately acted up, I do notice that the knotch in the cyl for that hole is rough on the tale of the arrow head. I'd like to smooth and leave in the other gun but it's such a small delicate thing

 

[fingers284]

What you have discovered and described now would indicate to me that there is a machining/size error and it could be anywhere from the pin linkage of the hand to the hammer up to the cyl.. Probably at the cyl end if it only occurs at the same hole every time.The thing that is really puzzling to me tho is that it doesn't do it every time, as a machining problem should cause.
Sorry to say I don't think your problem can be solved by kitchen table gunsmithing. A trip to a knowledgeable Ruger shop is warranted here I think. I would advise against just swapping cyl and using them that way as both guns may be out of time a smyge then (cyl are supposed to be matched to each frame before shipping).
This is the first instance I have ever heard of for a Ruger S.A. to not work right out of the box. Usually, even for a good competition gun they only require a main spring change from a 23# to a 17 or 18# then put em to work.

 

[leveractiontodd]

I was planning on going to the range and putting some rounds threw it,now i'm stump

 

[fingers284]

You certainly won't be able to John Wayne or Matt Dillon with it but if you control the firing sequence very carefully and visually make certain that the cartridge is lined up properly with firing pin (centered at the 12 o'clock position) & try to give the cyl a little turn both ways to make sure the bolt lock-up is secure before every shot, I wouldn't be concerned about sending a few down range

 

[leveractiontodd]

I just came from the range, i put 50 rounds through both guns singles a first then cowboy action speed, they both worked perfect, so im satisfied.

Thank you very much Fingers

Alias Smith

 

[davie crockett]

I think my father had the same issue!

The transfer bar is mechanically connected to the trigger & hammer, if it works some of the time theoretically it should work every time....theoretically... LOL.

Again with an empty gun, thumb the hammer back, the transfer bar should come up to at least 1/2 covering the end of the firing pin when at full ####. now with a small screwdriver or similar tool (pen will work) reach it in and push on the transfer bar, if it wiggles and moves up against the pin freely ( if you push it in far enough to push the firing pin, you should only notice a slight spring pressure from the firing pin return spring) it is probably going to work all right. Next, hold the hammer back with your thumb and pull the trigger, the transfer bar should now come up to almost completely cover the firing pin. continue holding the trigger in the firing position, now let the hammer come ahead slowly... watch the transfer bar, it should stay in the "up" position until the hammer reaches it. do not release the trigger yet, now look between the cyl and recoil plate, you should see a fair amount of firing pin protrusion into the area where the shell rim would be. Now release the trigger, you should hear a slight mechanical sound as the trigger spring returns the trigger ahead and withdraws the transfer bar. The firing pin should disappear back into its roost. If that is the case, all is well in that part of the gun it would appear to me.

Now getting back to my first post & your answer that you can't see any firing pin dents in the brass may be an indication that "over rotation" is still the problem but more pronounced than usually is the case. The cyl may be rotating enough past "lock up" far enough that the firing pin is hitting between the cartridges... so another test... Open the loading gate & rotate the cyl, do you hear a distinct "click" as each cyl ratchet notch is passed over the "hand". As well, you should feel a slight resistance when the cyl is rotated past each notch (from the hand spring pushing the hand against the cyl). This resistance is required to keep the cyl from a total free-wheel rotation as the gun is cocked. Without this resistance, the speed that the cyl rotates as you #### the gun can be faster than the locking bolt will come up to lock it.