brand new Norinco 1911 jamming every time

Geof, I have the exact gun you do. I would highly recommend you clean that gunky oil from everywhere. Do a really good cleaning and then put proper gun oil in the places that need it. Took two cleanings until that stuff stopped oozing out while I was shooting.

Second, the Norinco mags that came with mine were horrible. They didn't fit properly, caused the slide not to lock back when empty and the spring in one of them completely gave out. If you could at least try a better quality 1911 mag and see if you have issues, that might help.
 
mmattockx said:
Most any other brand would be considered a step up from the Norc mags. I have used the MecGar mags sold by Marstar with no troubles at all in a couple of different pistols. Others have been mentioned as well. One thing with a 1911, there is huge aftermarket support, so you will have lots of choices available.

The bullets sound like truncated cone to me. Does it look something like this:

images


They should feed OK, but the ultimate for reliability is the round nose (RN) bullet. The standard 1911 .45 load is a 230gr RN at ~900fps. Try to find some 230gr. RN and see if that helps your problems, especially while breaking it in and everything is still tight.

As for the lube, you need to completely clean off the oil/preservative that it was shipped in before doing anything else. That goopy stuff is meant for corrosion protection only and will gum the works up badly, especially if it is cold out when you are shooting. Clean it up completely, put a few drops of oil (or CLP) on the trigger group and sear and use small amounts (as in tiny dabs) of a light grease (I use lithium grease) on the slide rails where it slides on the receiver. You need hardly any lube at all for the gun to function correctly and extra lube just attracts more dirt and gunks things up faster. For corrosion protection, a wipe down with an oily rag (or CLP on the rag) is all that is required. Most people overlube guns and it is just not needed.

Mark
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Yes, this is how my ammo looks, except that it appears jacketed. I'll try to find some RN ammo and also do a proper cleaning.

And to everyone so far, thanks so much for your insight, interest in my problem, and helpful advice. AWESOME!

Geof
 
To hte original poster here is what the guys are saying about limp wristing. You aren't holding the gun like it shows in the video but you will see the effect of not holding the gun securely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh9JhCyFFxA

Not all guns are as prone to limp wristing as others..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsewsolPyBU

If there ther shooters at your range while you are there have them try your gun. If the gun is still jamming then look to new mags before going any further.

Before you do go to the range again though follow the above advice and thoroughly clean the gun and then apply oil on the slides where the slide meets the frame and any where else there is metal to metal contact. Do not oil your mags.

When shooting make sure your grip is secure and your strong arm is locked so you arms are not acting as shock absorbers taking away the effect of recoil required to operate the slide.

Try this and come back and let us know how your gun functioned. I suspect you will find the gun operates just fine.

I should add, make sure your mags are cleaned thoroughly. If there is grease and gunk in there the springs will hang up resulting in not enough pressure to load the next round.

Take Care

Bob
 
I STRONGLY recommend removing ALL the chinese oil and then re-lube it with a known quantity like Hoppes gun oil. The Chinese stuff is just cr@p.
 
mlehtovaara said:
He said here the "casing" gets stuck so I assumed stovepipe, but it is possible he is talking about a live round in which case yes the mags would be my first fix. Clarification from the OP might help.
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OP here.

I should have clarified this earlier. Every time it jams, it is a live round that gets stuck. Every successful round is extracted nicely and flung out at least six or seven feet. The live round kind of end up in an awkward pisition, nose up, but does not make it to the chamber and the slide does not close on it.

Geof
 
Claven2 said:
I STRONGLY recommend removing ALL the chinese oil and then re-lube it with a known quantity like Hoppes gun oil. The Chinese stuff is just cr@p.
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The Chinese stuff is most likely preservative and not intended to be lubricant. Once this is thoroughly cleaned off and the gun is properly lubricated, extractor tension is the most likely culprit if you are still getting stovepipes.

For the money, the Norincos are a fairly decent "parts kit" that may need some tweaking to ensure proper function.
 
Geof said:
OP here.

I should have clarified this earlier. Every time it jams, it is a live round that gets stuck. Every successful round is extracted nicely and flung out at least six or seven feet. The live round kind of end up in an awkward pisition, nose up, but does not make it to the chamber and the slide does not close on it.

Geof
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OK what you are seeing is "early release" and the simple cure is to take your empty mag and press the feed lip edge firmly against a wood door frame - once on each side - the resting angle of the top round should be slightly lower. Or simply try someone else's magazines.
 
You just got a lemon, or you did not assemble it properly after cleaning.
I have 3 norinco pistols, all 100% reliable
 
I have 2 Norinco 1911's including the exact model you have. Never had a single FTF or FTE with either.

1) Make sure your magazine is firmly seated. 2) 1911's do not like truncated cone ammo. Use 230gr round nose and I believe your problems will be over.
 
mlehtovaara said:
So are we all to simply accept your opinion as truth, and submit to your will?

Wendy is that you? LOL

Is it not possible that some might have a different opinion and collect guns of all types because they consider them art, or pieces of history.

Why would so many people have so many guns?

Even possibly many guns in the same caliber!:eek:

Some people buy guns and don't even shoot them!:eek:
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You don't have to accept anything I say. If you collect firearms and don't shoot them, you have no place in discussing their proper operation. Collectors are collectors, shooters are shooters.

pizdets17 said:
Hollywood? Really lol? Wonder how many glock were around in say 1911? Thats like saying a 67 mustang is crap because its not fuel injected and has no power windows and needs more maintenance, and a honda civic is better because it starts every time and gets better gas mileage. Rock on tupperware man.
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Its not about how long the gun has been around, its about how long you have been around and what influenced your decision to buy a 1911(not you per say, just as an example). I have yet to meet a 1911 owner who doesn't believe that 45 has more "stopping power" than 9mm or 40. I have yet to meet a 1911 owner who doesn't ride on the belief that a 100 year old design must be the best or it wouldn't have lasted 100 years. I have yet to meet a 1911 owner who doesn't believe that regular and extensive maintenance or modifications are "required" for quality guns to run reliably.

All the statements above are perpetuated by myths and Hollywood garbage. Its odd that some on here will immediately complain about a $20 aftermarket accessory that doesn't work right, but have no problem buying a pistol worth several hundred to several thousand dollars that suffers the same fate.

No one buys a car or cell phone that's broke. No one buys rotten food or half eaten meals at a restaurant. So why the acceptance for buying a gun that doesn't function out of the box? I mean it is a super reliable 100 year old design right?

TDC
 
Geof said:
OP here.

I should have clarified this earlier. Every time it jams, it is a live round that gets stuck. Every successful round is extracted nicely and flung out at least six or seven feet. The live round kind of end up in an awkward pisition, nose up, but does not make it to the chamber and the slide does not close on it.

Geof
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does round get onto the extractor?
 
TDC said:
I have yet to meet a 1911 owner who doesn't believe
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"http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx
Top 20 Logical Fallacies (in alphabetical order)
Ad hominem
An ad hominem argument is any that attempts to counter another’s claims or conclusions by attacking the person, rather than addressing the argument itself.

If you don't know enough about pistols to help the OP, then start your own "All 1911 owners are morons" thread.

The OP can make a list of 5 possible causes, and eliminate them in a logical manner.
 
Juster said:
"http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx
Top 20 Logical Fallacies (in alphabetical order)
Ad hominem
An ad hominem argument is any that attempts to counter another’s claims or conclusions by attacking the person, rather than addressing the argument itself.

If you don't know enough about pistols to help the OP, then start your own "All 1911 owners are morons" thread.

The OP can make a list of 5 possible causes, and eliminate them in a logical manner.
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Sorry, I had already offered advice. The same advice several others offered. clean the gun, replace the magazines.

Do tell, who did I personally attack? I merely mentioned the ever popular beliefs of 1911 lovers. All of which are false and/or perpetuated by Hollywood or lack of knowledge. I was commenting or "attacking" the ignorant misinformed ideals not the individuals who spout them. If you feel so strong about my ad hominem attack then I guess it would be safe to say you fall into the group mentioned?? If not you would have no need to be offended or claim my post was an ad hominem attack.

TDC
 
Geof said:
OP here.

I should have clarified this earlier. Every time it jams, it is a live round that gets stuck. Every successful round is extracted nicely and flung out at least six or seven feet. The live round kind of end up in an awkward pisition, nose up, but does not make it to the chamber and the slide does not close on it.

Geof
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Madness and I are on the same path of investigation.

It sounds like your extractor is hanging up the feed process. With the slide off, can you insert a round under the extractor onto the breech face with minimal effort or is it really tough? If really tough - the extractor needs work.

If that's not it, it's possible the barrel has not been fitted properly, proper spacing is required for the feed to work right.

What's the dealer you bought the gun from saying? This is a new gun, it should not be your problem to fix it.
 
OP here again.

Thanks again for all the great ideas and possible fixes. Here is my plan based on all the comments:
1. Take the gun apart again and clean all the part throroughly and relubricate it.
2. De gunk and relube the mags
3. Use round nose ammo, got some stuff made in the Czech Republic today, and then take it to the range an fire away.
4. Because it is brand new, if that doesn't work i will call Marstar and get further direction from them before I try any of the other fixes. I tend to agree that a new gun, no matter what its weaknesses, should shoot fairly well right out of the box. I also got a Norinco m93 22 for xmas and it shoots great. I had only one jam out of about 150 rounds and i think it was because the lead on the cartridge was a bit deformed.

So, wish me luck. And again, thanks for all of your amazing insights and ideas.

Geof
 
Geof said:
OP here again.

Thanks again for all the great ideas and possible fixes. Here is my plan based on all the comments:
1. Take the gun apart again and clean all the part throroughly and relubricate it.
2. De gunk and relube the mags
3. Use round nose ammo, got some stuff made in the Czech Republic today, and then take it to the range an fire away.
4. Because it is brand new, if that doesn't work i will call Marstar and get further direction from them before I try any of the other fixes. I tend to agree that a new gun, no matter what its weaknesses, should shoot fairly well right out of the box. I also got a Norinco m93 22 for xmas and it shoots great. I had only one jam out of about 150 rounds and i think it was because the lead on the cartridge was a bit deformed.

So, wish me luck. And again, thanks for all of your amazing insights and ideas.

Geof
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That's a solid plan.

TDC
 
Geof said:
I'm looking for some guidance with regard to a new gun I just bought. I have the 1911 sport two-tone model of Norinco's 45 ACP. It looks fantastic and I could hardly wait to get it to the range, however when I got there I was quite disappointed. I shot 49 rounds through that thing (7 clips worth) and it jammed at least once on every magazine and sometime 2 or three times. Now this thing was drenched with gun oil when I received it--I'm assuming that is because its shipped by boat over the ocean, so when I received it, the first thing I did was field strip it and wipe away 90% of the oil. Do you think I took too much oil off of it. Should I really splash on oil again? I was using standard winchester ammo, do these Norincos like a different brand. Any tips or advice would be helpful. Because if the performance doesn't improve, this baby is going back to Marstar.

Geof
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So you bought a new gun. :) It doesn't work. Why are you fixing it? Take it back to Marstar. Cut your losses now.

You could take the gun to a gunsmith, but not this guy if the following is true ...

... deepened the slot b][with a hacksaw[/b], this allowed the extractor to grab hold of the brass correctly. This advise was given to me by Gunnar from Armco, problem solved.
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Mine had to go to Armco twice before it became 80% reliable ...
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To make the gun right by a competent pistolsmith may cost you a few hundred bucks and you'll still have a Norc. A few hundred dollars more and the price of a norc will get you a much better gun from the get go. Not to mention buying better magazines. How much does that cost and why does Norc ship mags that don't work with their guns?

I know smiths who refuse to work on anything Norinco. They tell me these guns can't be made right, only tolerable. And tolerate, the smith has to when the uninformed customer comes back with additional complaints. Just now, the smith is blamed for the lousy product and responsible for the work on a gun that could only be tolerable at best.

Saying all this, Norc prices are enticing until you have to spend a lot of money to get what you expected out of the box. To me, it's not worth it. I certainly would not throw good money on a Norc hoping for Colt quality.

If you must have a Norc, insist on one that works out of the box from the dealer. Why should you fix it?

I'm sure all the suggestions here are well meaning, but how can you assess a gun's function with such a variety of fixes from the very little information provided by the opening poster?
 
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