The Question:
Will using BRASSO as a tumbler media additive corrode, decay, weaken, soften, imbrittle, or deteriorate brass in any way?
Backround:
During the past few years I have spent in school in order to obtain my Power Engineering Diploma, Third Class power Engineer Certification and also acquire my ASSET registered Professional Engineer certification and seal, I have covered subjects such as metallurgy and chemistry. I am also now employed as a Power Engineer working at CF industries. Cf produces carbon dioxide, ammonia and ammonia products such as Urea. My education and work experience has led me to become curious about the effects, if any, that BRASSO may have on brass. I have asked this same question to many people and received a very wide variety of answers. Some not so logical and some that make good sense. There must be some reasonable answer to this question!!!!
Some facts:
Ammonia (NH4) boils at -33 oC Due to this ammonia exists as a gas at atmospheric pressure and ambient temperature. In order to store ammonia as a liquid it must be either refrigerated to -35 oC when at atmospheric pressure, stored at a pressure of 100psi at ambient temperature, or dissolved water. Ammonia dissolved in water is known as ammonium hydroxide. Ammonia with no water is called anhydrous ammonia.
BRASSO is not refrigerated or pressurized so one would conclude that that the ammonia contained in it is absorbed. Also the MSDS sheets from Reckitt Benckiser, the company that produces BRASSO, show that the ammonia is in the form of ammonium hydroxide. As stated above ammonium hydroxide is simply ammonia absorbed in water. According to the MSDS sheets I have found that in there various BRASSO products there was a minimum of 0% ammonium hydroxide and a maximum of 3% Some other sources claimed a maximum of 10% For arguments sake we will use the 10% from the other sources and not the 3% from the actual company that manufactures the product.
Conclusion
#1 the water in the BRASSO that has absorbed the ammonia would most likely evaporate rather quickly once mixed in with the tumbler media. Once the water is gone the ammonia desorbs and gases off leaving everything that was originally in the BRASSO behind as a residue on the media. But the ammonium hydroxide should be gone meaning that what is remaining should not be harmful to brass. I don’t know how long it would take the water to evaporate and the ammonia to gas off. Whether it is a mater of 5 minutes or 20 minutes I’m rather confident that if you put BRASSO in your tumbler media there is no way that the water wont be completely evaporated in a few hours allowing all the ammonia to completely desorb!!
#2 If by some chance there is something remaining in the BRASSO/media mixture other than water that is keeping the ammonia from gassing off that would mean that the ammonia would be remaining as a solid. Let us remember that ammonia only exists as a solid at temperatures below -77oC If the ammonia has undergone a chemical reaction after the water is evaporated and combined with another substance than after the chemical reaction has taken place it would no longer be ammonia!! But let’s just say for argument’s sake that by some very very unlikely situation there is somehow enough water remaining in mixture it may keep some of the ammonia absorbed. Let’s even go so far to say that evaporation does not exist and all the water is there keeping all the original ammonia absorbed. I took the amount of walnut shell that it takes to fill my tumbler (Dillon CV 2001) and measured it in liters for an easy unit to work with. It takes around 10 liters of walnut shell to fill my tumbler. I use 4 teaspoons of BRASSO in my tumbler. 1 teaspoon is equal to 1ml If I use 4ml of BRASSO at a max of 10%ammonia than I have added 0.4ml of ammonia to 10L or 10,000ml of walnut shell. That leaves us with a mixture of Walnut shell and 0.004% ammonia. If this was possible, but it’s not because evaporation does exist, how hard could a 0.004% ammonia concentration be on brass???? Especially considering it is only in there for a matter of hours.
Closing:
I use BRASSO because it works and has never caused me any problems!! Until I find something that works better or find any evidence of it harming my brass I will continue using it. I tumble my brass every time a reload and my rounds are usually all loaded hot. I have 20 pieces of brass that have been through my 243 13 times now and there sitting on the bench ready to be loaded for number 14. I will continue to load them until the brass starts to crack due to work hardening or thinning, but I don believe it will be due to BRASSO.
If there is anything that I have not covered, missed, or didn’t factor in please let me know!!! If anyone can find any more information to either support or question my conclusion I am open to that as well. I don’t claim to be rite or to be wrong, just stating the facts and information that I have found. If I overlooked anything please let me know!!!
I’m very interested to read everyone replies and thoughts on this subject. I hope I have covered everything and answered many people’s questions. Let’s hear what all you chemists out there have to say!!!!!!!
Will using BRASSO as a tumbler media additive corrode, decay, weaken, soften, imbrittle, or deteriorate brass in any way?
Backround:
During the past few years I have spent in school in order to obtain my Power Engineering Diploma, Third Class power Engineer Certification and also acquire my ASSET registered Professional Engineer certification and seal, I have covered subjects such as metallurgy and chemistry. I am also now employed as a Power Engineer working at CF industries. Cf produces carbon dioxide, ammonia and ammonia products such as Urea. My education and work experience has led me to become curious about the effects, if any, that BRASSO may have on brass. I have asked this same question to many people and received a very wide variety of answers. Some not so logical and some that make good sense. There must be some reasonable answer to this question!!!!
Some facts:
Ammonia (NH4) boils at -33 oC Due to this ammonia exists as a gas at atmospheric pressure and ambient temperature. In order to store ammonia as a liquid it must be either refrigerated to -35 oC when at atmospheric pressure, stored at a pressure of 100psi at ambient temperature, or dissolved water. Ammonia dissolved in water is known as ammonium hydroxide. Ammonia with no water is called anhydrous ammonia.
BRASSO is not refrigerated or pressurized so one would conclude that that the ammonia contained in it is absorbed. Also the MSDS sheets from Reckitt Benckiser, the company that produces BRASSO, show that the ammonia is in the form of ammonium hydroxide. As stated above ammonium hydroxide is simply ammonia absorbed in water. According to the MSDS sheets I have found that in there various BRASSO products there was a minimum of 0% ammonium hydroxide and a maximum of 3% Some other sources claimed a maximum of 10% For arguments sake we will use the 10% from the other sources and not the 3% from the actual company that manufactures the product.
Conclusion
#1 the water in the BRASSO that has absorbed the ammonia would most likely evaporate rather quickly once mixed in with the tumbler media. Once the water is gone the ammonia desorbs and gases off leaving everything that was originally in the BRASSO behind as a residue on the media. But the ammonium hydroxide should be gone meaning that what is remaining should not be harmful to brass. I don’t know how long it would take the water to evaporate and the ammonia to gas off. Whether it is a mater of 5 minutes or 20 minutes I’m rather confident that if you put BRASSO in your tumbler media there is no way that the water wont be completely evaporated in a few hours allowing all the ammonia to completely desorb!!
#2 If by some chance there is something remaining in the BRASSO/media mixture other than water that is keeping the ammonia from gassing off that would mean that the ammonia would be remaining as a solid. Let us remember that ammonia only exists as a solid at temperatures below -77oC If the ammonia has undergone a chemical reaction after the water is evaporated and combined with another substance than after the chemical reaction has taken place it would no longer be ammonia!! But let’s just say for argument’s sake that by some very very unlikely situation there is somehow enough water remaining in mixture it may keep some of the ammonia absorbed. Let’s even go so far to say that evaporation does not exist and all the water is there keeping all the original ammonia absorbed. I took the amount of walnut shell that it takes to fill my tumbler (Dillon CV 2001) and measured it in liters for an easy unit to work with. It takes around 10 liters of walnut shell to fill my tumbler. I use 4 teaspoons of BRASSO in my tumbler. 1 teaspoon is equal to 1ml If I use 4ml of BRASSO at a max of 10%ammonia than I have added 0.4ml of ammonia to 10L or 10,000ml of walnut shell. That leaves us with a mixture of Walnut shell and 0.004% ammonia. If this was possible, but it’s not because evaporation does exist, how hard could a 0.004% ammonia concentration be on brass???? Especially considering it is only in there for a matter of hours.
Closing:
I use BRASSO because it works and has never caused me any problems!! Until I find something that works better or find any evidence of it harming my brass I will continue using it. I tumble my brass every time a reload and my rounds are usually all loaded hot. I have 20 pieces of brass that have been through my 243 13 times now and there sitting on the bench ready to be loaded for number 14. I will continue to load them until the brass starts to crack due to work hardening or thinning, but I don believe it will be due to BRASSO.
If there is anything that I have not covered, missed, or didn’t factor in please let me know!!! If anyone can find any more information to either support or question my conclusion I am open to that as well. I don’t claim to be rite or to be wrong, just stating the facts and information that I have found. If I overlooked anything please let me know!!!
I’m very interested to read everyone replies and thoughts on this subject. I hope I have covered everything and answered many people’s questions. Let’s hear what all you chemists out there have to say!!!!!!!
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