Brasso my asso
- Thread starter .50BMG
- Start date
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
excellent thread.
I've used Brasso, as a media life extender but stopped after a gunsmith friend and shooter from the USA recommended it not be used. His argument revolved around the ammonia issue.
Your point about the ammonia evaporating is well taken, as is the wax build up problem in the tumbler associated with the use of the various car polishes (they may or may not also contain ammonia by the way).
So, an old cheapskate like myself might just use a bit of Brasso now and then.
There is evidence that Brasso used immediately on brass attacks brass, and I don't think there is much of an argument there, but if you add it and wait a bit? Even let it dry out, I've seen no study, and from memory, my experience indicates there is no proof it hurts anything.
Certainly I'm still using 45-70, and 30-30 cases that date from the days I used it.
Some of those cases would have well over 25 reloads. The headstamp on the 45-70 stuff is getting hard to read.
That's long life.
Granted that they were not continually cleaned in Brasso enhanced media.
I would not think that dry, the abrasives in Brasso would even aproach the red Jewlers rouge like stuff that Lyman uses.
I've used Brasso, as a media life extender but stopped after a gunsmith friend and shooter from the USA recommended it not be used. His argument revolved around the ammonia issue.
Your point about the ammonia evaporating is well taken, as is the wax build up problem in the tumbler associated with the use of the various car polishes (they may or may not also contain ammonia by the way).
So, an old cheapskate like myself might just use a bit of Brasso now and then.
There is evidence that Brasso used immediately on brass attacks brass, and I don't think there is much of an argument there, but if you add it and wait a bit? Even let it dry out, I've seen no study, and from memory, my experience indicates there is no proof it hurts anything.
Certainly I'm still using 45-70, and 30-30 cases that date from the days I used it.
Some of those cases would have well over 25 reloads. The headstamp on the 45-70 stuff is getting hard to read.
That's long life.
Granted that they were not continually cleaned in Brasso enhanced media.
I would not think that dry, the abrasives in Brasso would even aproach the red Jewlers rouge like stuff that Lyman uses.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
A bit of a side issue but adding a small amount of Brasso to the crushed walnut shell media also helps keep the dust level down. Again, I 'think' I got it from this site, but something else that helps keep the dust down when using straight walnut shell media. Cutting up old used "Bounce" dryer sheets to about half their original size and adding a few to the mixture.
The concentrations of ammonia in Brasso are so low that the damage done to brass is negligible. However if you soak a piece of brass in a bottle of Brasso for a couple of weeks you MIGHT start to get some localized corrosion in microscopic stress cracks. Ammonia corrosion will leave black streaks where it has penetrated stress cracks.
When you get right down to basics, brass exposed to AIR corrodes and causes it to become brittle.
Basically, the talk about the ammonia in Brasso is about a theoretical and non-existent problem.
Take a look at various cleaning solutions that are DESIGNED to remove copper from barrels. There were tests were they dropped a bullet into the solutions for 24+ hours, and most of the time there was just a negligible loss in the weight of bullet. So a whiff of ammonia in Brasso that evaporates almost immediately? Not a chance.
BTW, I use the Lyman additive as shown above. Really cheap and works as well as anything else.
When you get right down to basics, brass exposed to AIR corrodes and causes it to become brittle.
Basically, the talk about the ammonia in Brasso is about a theoretical and non-existent problem.
Take a look at various cleaning solutions that are DESIGNED to remove copper from barrels. There were tests were they dropped a bullet into the solutions for 24+ hours, and most of the time there was just a negligible loss in the weight of bullet. So a whiff of ammonia in Brasso that evaporates almost immediately? Not a chance.
BTW, I use the Lyman additive as shown above. Really cheap and works as well as anything else.
Hey .50BMG,
Nice thread, but your evidence seems to be based entirely on the ammonia available in Brasso. What proof is there that ammonia may be the only ingredent in Brasso that has any damaging effect on brass cases? Could any other ingredient in Brasso, or any combination of ingredients cause issue with brass cases?
Nice thread, but your evidence seems to be based entirely on the ammonia available in Brasso. What proof is there that ammonia may be the only ingredent in Brasso that has any damaging effect on brass cases? Could any other ingredient in Brasso, or any combination of ingredients cause issue with brass cases?
blacksmithden
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Oh for Christ sake. I've used the stuff to no end with no problems.
I here by issue a challenge. NO B.S. THEORIES ALLOWED. No "I've heard"...I've heard" that Martians are running the U.S. government. It's all B.S. without proof.
I challenge ANYONE to show me a piece of rifle brass that conclusively has damage from being exposed to Brasso. Go ahead. Take a picture of it and post it with details. I'll be more than glad to contact the manufacturer and tell them that the very product that is designed to clean brass is actually damaging it. Show me the evidence or put a sock in it.
I here by issue a challenge. NO B.S. THEORIES ALLOWED. No "I've heard"...I've heard" that Martians are running the U.S. government. It's all B.S. without proof.
I challenge ANYONE to show me a piece of rifle brass that conclusively has damage from being exposed to Brasso. Go ahead. Take a picture of it and post it with details. I'll be more than glad to contact the manufacturer and tell them that the very product that is designed to clean brass is actually damaging it. Show me the evidence or put a sock in it.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Don't think you'll get much of an argument, if you read over the thread, you'd see we've been coming to a general consensus, with a few exceptions, on that.
It could be argued that a polisher itself damages brass, as it removes a microscopic layer in the process of polishing.
The question therefore becomes does that microscopic damage, and I'll include that done by Brasso, jewelers rouge and car polish, matter from a handloader's perspective?
I'm thinking NOPE.
That's my opinion, based on observation. But, we're a superstitious bunch, and the guys here will believe what they want.
BattleRife
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- of No Fixed Address
There is no question that ammonia is extremely destructive to brass, as well as all copper compounds, so for that reason it is sensible that the shooting community has approached it with caution. However, it should be obvious that "approach with caution" is not the same thing as "avoid at all costs". It just means that someone needs to do some leg work to build confidence.
It appears that many shooters have used Brasso with success: that is the proof in the pudding. You have put some thought into coming up with a theory as to why we can get away with using it, and it seems pretty sound. It only leaves one question in my mind: if the ammonia in Brasso doesn't persist long enough to do anything, then why is it there?
At any rate, I will bow to your arguement and not tell people they shouldn't use Brasso on brass. Of course, I can't remember ever telling anyone that in the past, but that matters not.
Oh, and if you go to Manus Abrasives off of Sherwood Park Freeway at 17 St., I bet they will sell you plastic beads for about 1/4 of what you're paying now.
It appears that many shooters have used Brasso with success: that is the proof in the pudding. You have put some thought into coming up with a theory as to why we can get away with using it, and it seems pretty sound. It only leaves one question in my mind: if the ammonia in Brasso doesn't persist long enough to do anything, then why is it there?
At any rate, I will bow to your arguement and not tell people they shouldn't use Brasso on brass. Of course, I can't remember ever telling anyone that in the past, but that matters not.
Oh, and if you go to Manus Abrasives off of Sherwood Park Freeway at 17 St., I bet they will sell you plastic beads for about 1/4 of what you're paying now.
The ammonia is there because Brasso is sold as a polish that you put dab/pour on a rag and polish your brass doorknob, cannons, whatever, directly. Meaning that the ammonia will not have evaporated and is useful in removing tarnish.
That doesn't happen when you put a bit in a tumbler, it is spread out on the media and the ammonia evaporates. What cleans the brass is the abrasives and detergents in Brasso.
Since the plastic pellets and brasso was discovered earlier this year I have since retired my crushed walnut/corn/lizard litter and two other kinds of media for cleaning brass. The pellets come white in the bag and after a cleaning of the brass the pellets are grey and the brass is shinny. Once the plastic pellets are black I simply dump them in a big strainer and wash them them with soap and let them soak over night. Back into the tumbler with another cap full or two of brasso and a way you go again. Never have to buy anything again and nothing works as good and I have tried many things of the 40 years I have been reloading.
Good stuff - thanks. One of the beloved dogma of reloading has been challenged and everyone played nice. Some will cling to the old ways, but I for one would like to try it.
I'm going to look around for a source of plastic beads, but need more info, i.e. :
- their preferred diameter range;
- how much would I need? (by weight? volume?)
- composition (I imagine any hard plastic would be fine); and
- sources. Who uses them, i.e. what present applications/industries? The same thing can suddenly become very expensive when a new application is discovered.
A good opportunity for someone to develop a supply and peddle it to CGN "Heretic" Reloaders.
I'm going to look around for a source of plastic beads, but need more info, i.e. :
- their preferred diameter range;
- how much would I need? (by weight? volume?)
- composition (I imagine any hard plastic would be fine); and
- sources. Who uses them, i.e. what present applications/industries? The same thing can suddenly become very expensive when a new application is discovered.
A good opportunity for someone to develop a supply and peddle it to CGN "Heretic" Reloaders.
Good point with the brass corroding in air!!!!! In actuality brass is continuously being oxidized causing it to become tarnished, hence why they invented brass polish in the first place. Ever looked at a piece of brass you just polished in comparison to a piece of brass you may have polished a few months ago. The one from a few months ago will be a much darker gold color. This is due to the oxidization process that is continuously at work on your brass!!!
Really good point!!! When i first reviewed the MSDS sheets for BRASSO i did not find any other concerning ingredients!!! But i will look over the MSDS sheets again and all the listed ingredients just to double check. I will get back to you on this!!!
Good stuff - thanks. One of the beloved dogma of reloading has been challenged and everyone played nice. Some will cling to the old ways, but I for one would like to try it.
I'm going to look around for a source of plastic beads, but need more info, i.e. :
- their preferred diameter range;
- how much would I need? (by weight? volume?)
- composition (I imagine any hard plastic would be fine); and
- sources. Who uses them, i.e. what present applications/industries? The same thing can suddenly become very expensive when a new application is discovered.
A good opportunity for someone to develop a supply and peddle it to CGN "Heretic" Reloaders.
From post #10
The plastic beads can be purchased from bedrock supply in edmonton alberta. It takes about $60 dollars worth to fill my Dillon tumbler. Expensive but I'm hoping that once dirty i can wash the beads. That way it will last for many years.
The plastic beads are actually made from a NGL (natural gas liquid) extraction plant located in Empress alberta. They use a cryogenic turbo-expander. Meaning they take natural gas from the transcanada pipeline that is at about 750PSI and reduce the pressure to about 50PSI. Compressing a gas releases heat, expanding a gas absorbs heat!! the extremely cold gas due to the expansion process (-90 C) causes the NGL and ethane to precipitate out of the gas stream. The ethane is than turned into these plastic beads and shipped to large plants that use the plastic bead as a feed stock for producing plastic products. Or we use them for tumbling brass! Bed Rock supplies uses them for polishing precious stones
This $60 dollars i spent bought me 8LB and shipping. The plastic beads them selves are roughly two or three times the size of walnut media. That is kind of nice because it wont fit in the flash holes and plug them!!
