Bringing a 5.56-marked AR in the US for a training course - possible?

[mildot]

Funny how they are so uptight about training Canadians yet they trained dictators and terrorist groups around the world for years. They even trained many of the people we are fighting today in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Most of the folks(US) I know through my MIL/LE connections think that it is bulls**t!! I think that most of the blame lies with the Liberal GOV,if its true that the US offered an exemption and the GOV passed.

 

[heckler]

training

A little off the question but you can train in the states. Some schools offer guns for rent(horrible expensive though). Gunsite and frontsite both do this even had them ask what I currently owned and they would source something simillar ar the same for me to use while there. They are quite friendly and I found them to be very Canadian friendly. But the costs do add up...Courses and rentals(ammo)would have been close to $5000.

 

[mildot]

I guess it "boils" down to the provider? Glock conducts training in Canada,however everyone has to be approved by the DOS and have a DSP-83 (a type of "end user certificate"). Maybe for some companies there training falls in a "grey area"? and the DOS doesn't bother them.

 

[dinsdale]

I know people who went to the SIG academy last year so...

 

[shotzee]

Just borrow a lower, take your upper with you? I'm sure you can rent just a lower.

 

[toxic]

Barrel can't be less than 16 inches. Flash hider, bayo lug and collapsible stock is okay for temporary import. Short shotguns and folding stock shotguns are a no go. Guns from China are no go even for temporary import. The same is true of many guns from the former soviet union including the SKS. Finding the list of countries and models was a rough trip through U.S. regulations - I really wish I would have made bookmarks...

You need a hunting license or an invite to a shoot for your form6 to get approval. In you case you want to get a hunting license that will be valid when you are down there. You possession of the firearms in the U.S. is legal as long as you have a valid hunting license from any U.S. state and your form 6. Technically if you borrow a gun down there you must have a valid license or your possession is illegal.

As mentioned in the U.S. gun laws vary state to state. Even if you bring a gun legally into North Dakota if may be illegal to have in California. You really need to so some homework on the states you will be in.

I have done a pile of research on this in the last few months. It's a bit confusing. The proof will be in the pudding when my form6 comes back. I listed one rifle that I expect to be denied but I wanted to see if they would.

 

[Petrock]

Toxic,

What did you list that you expect to be denied? Norc?

 

[markt]

Barrel can't be less than 16 inches. Flash hider, bayo lug and collapsible stock is okay for temporary import. Short shotguns and folding stock shotguns are a no go. Guns from China are no go even for temporary import. The same is true of many guns from the former soviet union including the SKS. Finding the list of countries and models was a rough trip through U.S. regulations - I really wish I would have made bookmarks...

You need a hunting license or an invite to a shoot for your form6 to get approval. In you case you want to get a hunting license that will be valid when you are down there. You possession of the firearms in the U.S. is legal as long as you have a valid hunting license from any U.S. state and your form 6. Technically if you borrow a gun down there you must have a valid license or your possession is illegal.

As mentioned in the U.S. gun laws vary state to state. Even if you bring a gun legally into North Dakota if may be illegal to have in California. You really need to so some homework on the states you will be in.

I have done a pile of research on this in the last few months. It's a bit confusing. The proof will be in the pudding when my form6 comes back. I listed one rifle that I expect to be denied but I wanted to see if they would.

I'm wondering if a barrel stamped "5.56 NATO" would be enough to get denied and whether stating .223 as the caliber on the form would help any.

I too would like to hear about your experiences with getting the form.

Cheers,

MarkT

 

[1riot1ranger]

My LMT is approved on my Form 6.

5.56mm NATO.

Barrel must be greater than 16".

 

[markt]

My LMT is approved on my Form 6.

5.56mm NATO.

Barrel must be greater than 16".

So, it appears that they're not concerned with "military calibers" when importing, right?

Also to confirm, the barrel can be 16" or more? Some rifles only come with 16.0" barrels, not 16.1". Would they still be approved?

Cheers,

MarkT

 

[1riot1ranger]

So, it appears that they're not concerned with "military calibers" when importing, right?

Also to confirm, the barrel can be 16" or more? Some rifles only come with 16.0" barrels, not 16.1". Would they still be approved?

Cheers,

MarkT

Apply for your Form 6.

A rejection puts you right where you are now.

 

[novan3]

Join the reserves; they'll train to use your AR15 and pay you for it lol

 

[cowtown45]

Apply for your Form 6.

A rejection puts you right where you are now.

Agreed. There's no fee involved so if you apply you have nothing to lose.

 

[markt]

Agreed. There's no fee involved so if you apply you have nothing to lose.

I may try that but I need to get the AR first. I was just trying to isolate down the basic requirements for a gun that would be approved for temporary import down there should I find a course I like.

So, it appears that I'll need a 16" barrel AR that's made in a "friendly" nation. I hope it's safe to assume that they won't snag the gun if it says 5.56mm NATO on it.

Cheers,

MarkT

 

[KevinB]

The requirements for the DSP-83 depend on what training.

Shooting classes that are not what they consider LE/MIL or Dual Role don't require a DSP-83. Shooting Matches do not require a DSP-83.

Permanent Residents of the USA (Green Card Holders) do not require a DSP-83 or a Hunting License.

You cannot lend lowers/firearms to Non Citizens/Perm Residents.
I can let someone shoot one of my guns, but I need to be there given care and attention.

 

[acrashb]

I hope it's safe to assume that they won't snag the gun if it says 5.56mm NATO on it.

One of mine says "5.56x45mm" which is the technical designation, no problem for several years now.

 

[cybershooters]

What restrictions exist that would prevent me from bringing in an AR into the US for this purpose, e.g. 5.56 caliber markings, barrel length, country of manufacture?

None really, the "sporting purpose" test doesn't apply to temporary imports (neither does the Chinese import ban). The only real restriction is that it musn't be full-auto, converted auto, or have a barrel length less than 16 inches or an OAL less than 26 inches with the stock collapsed.

Basically you just apply on Form 6NIA. You may have a problem if the manufacturer is somebody that ATF Technology Branch has never heard of, because then it won't be in their reference collection and they'll invent some BS reason to call it an NFA weapon.

The real problem is getting State Dept. approval for the training itself, as already mentioned.

 

[cybershooters]

I guess it "boils" down to the provider? Glock conducts training in Canada,however everyone has to be approved by the DOS and have a DSP-83 (a type of "end user certificate"). Maybe for some companies there training falls in a "grey area"? and the DOS doesn't bother them.

Yes, the same grey area in which Guy Savage will shortly be renting property for several years while wearing an orange boiler suit.

As I've said about a million times, check with the State Dept. We are not psychic and cannot know what they consider ITAR to apply to. Just call up the PMDDTC and ask them, or write them a letter, etc. You cannot infer that because person A was okay that you will be okay, some of the decisions the State Dept. make are based on very fine interpretations of US law, and those regulations change quite frequently.

There is no "grey area" - the State Dept defines that area. If they want you to submit a DSP-83 or whatever you have to do it.

 

[KevinB]

Yes, the same grey area in which Guy Savage will shortly be renting property for several years while wearing an orange boiler suit.

As I've said about a million times, check with the State Dept. We are not psychic and cannot know what they consider ITAR to apply to. Just call up the PMDDTC and ask them, or write them a letter, etc. You cannot infer that because person A was okay that you will be okay, some of the decisions the State Dept. make are based on very fine interpretations of US law, and those regulations change quite frequently.

There is no "grey area" - the State Dept defines that area. If they want you to submit a DSP-83 or whatever you have to do it.

Best comments in this thread...

 

[markt]

None really, the "sporting purpose" test doesn't apply to temporary imports (neither does the Chinese import ban). The only real restriction is that it musn't be full-auto, converted auto, or have a barrel length less than 16 inches or an OAL less than 26 inches with the stock collapsed.

Basically you just apply on Form 6NIA. You may have a problem if the manufacturer is somebody that ATF Technology Branch has never heard of, because then it won't be in their reference collection and they'll invent some BS reason to call it an NFA weapon.

The real problem is getting State Dept. approval for the training itself, as already mentioned.

Ok, so would they allow a temporary import of a Norc M4 with a different upper that has a 16" barrel on it? Has anyone done this?

Cheers,

MarkT