British Double James Williams and CO?

[.22LRGUY]

Hey guys-hope you're all having a good weekend so far. I've been on CGN some time, by my areas of interest lie mostly in rimfire and shotgun, varmint-caliber bolt guns, etc. Recently, and acquaintance asked; "oh..., you're a 'gun guy'-we have this old shotgun at the cottage we used to shoot back in the 60s, can you tell me what it is/what it's worth?"

Now, I've always tried to answer questions like this when I thought I think I have something of value to add to the conversation, so I hope there is someone here who can offer me some direction. Not after any particular outcome, nor have I been asked to sell the gun. I will update if any of this changes. Please see the attached photos, from what I can tell, it was made by James Williams and Co in London, but the guns I saw online did not have exposed hammers...which tells me it predates some of those early 1900s examples. Assuming I was looking at the right gun. I know very little about shotguns before about 1950...so I wouldn't even know how to shoot this gun. (confession day=feels good!) Photos are from the owner, I did request photos of the entire gun, assembled. Didn't get those.

Thanks for taking a moment to look!

 

[mooncoon]

the gun does appear to have a british proof mark on the barrels although the R appears to indicate a reproof; is there anything on the flat surface at the bottom of the very breach end of the barrels ? I would have expected several stamps in that area. The face on the forend appears to be done sometime after construction and the barrels appear to have been reblued as a home job

cheers mooncoon

 

[.22LRGUY]

Thanks for the information MC-I’ve requested detailed photos is that area, I’ll post an update when I receive them. Very much appreciate you chiming in!

 

[Stephen Nash]

James Williams & Co was established at 44 St Paul's Square, Birmingham in 1873. In 1882 Williams obtained a patent for an opening cocking hammerless action with an intercepting safety, which may the hammerless guns you’ve found on your Net search. At some time, probably about 1885, the firm appears to have had a shop in London, so your gun dates around then or later. The serial number makes sense for a small maker in business for about 15 years. The firm moved to 1 Great Hampton Street, Birmingham, in 1900 but appears to have closed between 1941 and 1945.

I agree the fore-end tip is a later addition, and not original from the maker.

Value is difficult to assess without a good inspection, but unfortunately it will not be high for this gun.

 

[.22LRGUY]

James Williams & Co was established at 44 St Paul's Square, Birmingham in 1873. In 1882 Williams obtained a patent for an opening cocking hammerless action with an intercepting safety, which may the hammerless guns you’ve found on your Net search. At some time, probably about 1885, the firm appears to have had a shop in London, so your gun dates around then or later. The serial number makes sense for a small maker in business for about 15 years. The firm moved to 1 Great Hampton Street, Birmingham, in 1900 but appears to have closed between 1941 and 1945.

I agree the fore-end tip is a later addition, and not original from the maker.

Value is difficult to assess without a good inspection, but unfortunately it will not be high for this gun.

Thanks Pinfire-I didn't see/couldn't imagine this gun has much value to a collector, and nothing I found for this maker shows a carving like this one has. Value on old guns (in my very limited experience) goes downhill fast when the condition isn't original, or, refinishing work has been done. I'll be getting at least an additional photo or two, which I'll also add to this post when I get them. If even a rough estimate of value can't be determined, I hope to at least go back with a short list of issues that take away from the value. As the owner is not a "gun guy", but the gun has been in the family a long time, it could be a handsome wall-hanger if decommissioned.