The navy had a requirement for rifles aboard ship as they could be called upon for Shore Parties or defense of ship at dock side in a less then friendly port, back in the C1 day. (I think the RCN has now called in C6 and .50 for that role). Its not always swash buckling boarding parties.
British Full-Auto Garand
- Thread starter cyclone
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The navy had a requirement for rifles aboard ship as they could be called upon for Shore Parties or defense of ship at dock side in a less then friendly port, back in the C1 day. (I think the RCN has now called in C6 and .50 for that role). Its not always swash buckling boarding parties.
I always enjoyed shooting the SMG, but was always puzzled about why it was fitted with a bayonet lug.
I always enjoyed shooting the SMG, but was always puzzled about why it was fitted with a bayonet lug.
I can recall a few incidents when an attached bayonet on the end of an SMG gave the deciding advantage. Especially in the dark, close up situations.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Growing up in Dartmouth, a father and almost our compete nieghborhood navy or ex-navy there was no lack of knowledge the great repository of just obselete military hardware kept at Magazine Hill or Willow Park.
An armorer whom discussed the select fire FNC1(D) thank your XRCD, also mentioned numerous Lancaster SMGs in use right until 1963 or thereabouts.
Someone working at Willow Park mentioned racks and racks of LE#4 rifles and nearby racks of 3.5inch Super Bazookas.
And at Stadacona where many sailors caught the duty boat to Halifax it was said there were numerous 20mm Orelikons in hard armoured mounts.
But seeing there was no easy way to tie them to a radar guided system, they were deemed unfit for navy use in the first Gulf War. I guess they were happy enuf with 50 cal M2 HMGs!?
There weren't many secrets in our town, but no one casually talked about visiting nuclear submarines away from prying eyes in Eastern Passage.
Snuggled up to our Clearance diver headquarters, south extension of Shearwater.
An armorer whom discussed the select fire FNC1(D) thank your XRCD, also mentioned numerous Lancaster SMGs in use right until 1963 or thereabouts.
Someone working at Willow Park mentioned racks and racks of LE#4 rifles and nearby racks of 3.5inch Super Bazookas.
And at Stadacona where many sailors caught the duty boat to Halifax it was said there were numerous 20mm Orelikons in hard armoured mounts.
But seeing there was no easy way to tie them to a radar guided system, they were deemed unfit for navy use in the first Gulf War. I guess they were happy enuf with 50 cal M2 HMGs!?
There weren't many secrets in our town, but no one casually talked about visiting nuclear submarines away from prying eyes in Eastern Passage.
Snuggled up to our Clearance diver headquarters, south extension of Shearwater.
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Thanx for that, but the OP stated "boarding parties" and I just assumed it was meant in the terms of the special occaissions when they would send a team to another ship or even shore installation, where quarters are cramped at best.
IMHO, each ship should be carrying firearms that are specifically intended for certain jobs.
The jobs you mention, would be well within their capabilities.
In all honesty, if I were going into boarding a hostile vessel situation, my weapon of choice would be a 12guage shotgun.
I worked under completely different rules of engagement in my day, the folks I encountered had never even heard of the Geneva Convention.
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Not in close quarters.
If you're talkng about longer range or open areas, I will readily agree.
My weapon of choice on the Negra River and surrounding jungle was a 12 gauge pump action with a 16 inch barrel.
With 0 or 00 buckshot it was devastating out to 50 yards and in one warehouse altercation, where the vendors were all packed together, in their 3mX3m cubicles to sell their gold, that little pump saved my butt.
The pistol wouldn't have been as effective but the MP5 would have worked just as well.
The C8 would have been to much gun and a lot of innocents could have been taken out as well.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Especially in cramped passageways and up and down confining stairways, once one is safely aboard a ship a shotgun can be a mighty fine weapon against those with lethal intent. Bouncing buckshot into corners can be very handy. Your opponent doesn't have to seen to be wounded or worse.
Specialty ammo in a pump shotgun is an added plus.
A boarding party with a third armed with shotguns could do much worse. Let's assume the boarding party is a detachment from a nearby modern warship, preferably with helo support.
Specialty ammo in a pump shotgun is an added plus.
A boarding party with a third armed with shotguns could do much worse. Let's assume the boarding party is a detachment from a nearby modern warship, preferably with helo support.
Right. How many rounds can you shove into a 12gauge Vs any high cap HG today ? How fast can you do a reload/mag change 12Ga Vs HG? To close in the spread of a SG is to tight to far away........all over the grid square. Weapon signiture, firing a SG in a enclosed area is a ear popper (enjoy that ringing for a couple days). Fight for retention, the HG can be pulled in tight to body, SG becomes a huge lever. If SG where all you make them out to be then why are they not more standard issue around the world, just asking ??
I was indicating my preference, from my experiences.
You are indicating your preferences.
I don't know of any military or police, anywhere in the world that don't issue shotguns for tight quarters work.
Most situations aren't in close quarters and a general purpose firearm works just fine.
A handgun can be fine, but it's not my first go to choice and the shotgun is easier to control, especially when it wears a butt stock.
A well practiced individual can reload a shotgun very quickly, but then again, you usually don't need that many rounds.
A single round of 00 buck generates 8 projectiles, similar to a burst from an SMG.
I'm not saying a shotgun is the ideal weapon for all situations, it is for many, especially in tight quarter, stressful situations, where ranges are from in your face to ten meters or even out to 50+ meters.
So you are fine with eight shots sailing off to land where ever they may, lordy LE use of SG for resolving a situation is pretty dated and maybe the norm back in the day pre 1970s, not any longer other then breaching a door ? Controlled, aimed shots in semi are the order of the day at winning the fight, FA is WAY over rated and just a great way to turn live rounds into noise (Fun fact: the only logical time to go FA is if the target(s) are over lapping/shoulder to shoulder and over running you).
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
From a reliable source, the FN C1D rifles often had their exposed barrels shortened for close compartment work. The one in the War Museum guide would have come out of Stores not off a ship.
Speaking of the Navy and its cultural aversion to small arms, I recall the Commodore in the Gulf twitching that the soldiers guarding him had C7s (the original model), and feeling like they (ie we) should turn in our rifles when not required. There is a back of the conscience fear with all Navy officers that their crews will mutiny or storm the bridge. Quite the opposite when green grunts are encouraged to carry.
Speaking of the Navy and its cultural aversion to small arms, I recall the Commodore in the Gulf twitching that the soldiers guarding him had C7s (the original model), and feeling like they (ie we) should turn in our rifles when not required. There is a back of the conscience fear with all Navy officers that their crews will mutiny or storm the bridge. Quite the opposite when green grunts are encouraged to carry.
I always enjoyed shooting the SMG, but was always puzzled about why it was fitted with a bayonet lug.
The British Parachute Regiment were issued the Sten Mk5 , wooden butt version with spike bayonet that fits the No.4 rifle , a fair number of photos of the Paras with the Mk5 Sten with fixed spike bayonet in Normandy , Operation Market Garden
If it comes to a bayonet fight, reach and parry really matter. But one must go with what they're issued.
Pinch me, but I also remember doing drill with the SMG. Shooting with it was a lot more fun.
In all honesty, in any of the situations where I needed more firepower, at that time in my life, I relied upon a very reliable M60
When dealing with a bunch of miners, usually unarmed, I was more worried about the pirates, masquerading as River Police. The miners just got out of the way as quickly as possible.
In that warehouse I mentioned, the SIX shot capacity of the shotgun was not a limitation. I had gotten into the habit of topping up the tube at every opportunity. No different than switching out a mag on an SMG.
Under stressful situations, getting SIX, let alone EIGHT chances out of the magazine of an SMG on full auto, normally doesn't happen. Maybe with a very well trained and in control individual.
