Okay your right! (does that make you feel warm inside), now if you could only use your knowledge to help people instead of hurting them.
Browning auto 5 not cycling
- Thread starter ken fowler
- Start date
I'm not a gunsmith, but I am familiar with the Auto 5; I also own one. I work in an engineering firm, and part of my job is checking for wear on mechanical parts used in the oilfield.
I do know that when you have two objects rubbing against each other, no matter how well lubed, you will get wear; that's just basic science.
Despite the name the Friction Ring does not rub against anything. Perhaps you are confusing this with the Friction Piece.
The Friction Ring is like a very thick steel washer, except it is flat on one side only, the other side has an angled bevel to accept the matching angled part (Friction Piece - which is split) made of bronze, which has a split spring around it called the Friction Spring. The purpose of this angle is to cause the bronze to contract on the tube and increase friction. The flat side of the Friction Ring is contacted by the Recoil Spring. The Friction Ring's inner diameter is larger than the tube it freely slides on.
The Friction Ring simply slides freely back and forth, trapped between the brass and the spring.... not wearing at all... the beveled piece of bronze (Friction Piece) is not going to wear the harder steel. The Recoil Spring is not wearing the flat side. In 45 years of gunsmithing I have never had to replace a worn out Friction Ring. Despite your words of wisdom I still don't see how one would wear out a Friction Ring. In 45 years of gunsmithing I also have not seen a worn out Friction Piece but considering it is bronze and sliding on polished steel I understand it may wear. Each time a shot is fired it moves about 3 inches back and forth.
I will chime in to try and explain this without sounding too much like a fool. I will emphasize that
my comments are targeted towards the steel shot users but a lot of the comments can be applicable to lead shooters also.
Browning Auto 5's have been around for a long time and they are some of the most reliable shotguns ever made,
like every other guns they have their maintenance requirements.
These guns have a fantastic braking system able to slow down the strongest magnum loads of the time
the big 1 7/8oz magnum loads yet able to provide reliable function and no frame battering.
Of coarse todays steel loads offer nothing in the way of momentum or thrust (for lack of a better word)
compared to those old bruisers so what happens is that the brake is overpowering the load causing jams.
It should be said that when these guns came into being back in the day they were meant to shoot the
ammo of the day namely lead loads and they were tuned to perfectly function with those loads.
Browning gave specific instructions in their manuals and also attached a label in the inside of the
forends to identify the orientation of the "rings" for high or low power loads. These loads of coarse
were lead loads with significantly different pressure curves than the steel loads we use today.
Three factors contribute directly to their reliability
1. Temperature during use.
2. Load weight and pressure curve of the load.
3. Orientation and lubrication of mag tube / friction ring assembly.
All of these things will contribute to the guns reliability.
BTW some have mentioned using grease on the tube, In my opinion
grease will create reliability problems when used in the friction brake system of the Browning Auto 5's
and should be avoided at all cost.
If this all sounds too funky or there are gaps in my explanation I can elaborate on specifics.
Cheers
BB
my comments are targeted towards the steel shot users but a lot of the comments can be applicable to lead shooters also.
Browning Auto 5's have been around for a long time and they are some of the most reliable shotguns ever made,
like every other guns they have their maintenance requirements.
These guns have a fantastic braking system able to slow down the strongest magnum loads of the time
the big 1 7/8oz magnum loads yet able to provide reliable function and no frame battering.
Of coarse todays steel loads offer nothing in the way of momentum or thrust (for lack of a better word)
compared to those old bruisers so what happens is that the brake is overpowering the load causing jams.
It should be said that when these guns came into being back in the day they were meant to shoot the
ammo of the day namely lead loads and they were tuned to perfectly function with those loads.
Browning gave specific instructions in their manuals and also attached a label in the inside of the
forends to identify the orientation of the "rings" for high or low power loads. These loads of coarse
were lead loads with significantly different pressure curves than the steel loads we use today.
Three factors contribute directly to their reliability
1. Temperature during use.
2. Load weight and pressure curve of the load.
3. Orientation and lubrication of mag tube / friction ring assembly.
All of these things will contribute to the guns reliability.
BTW some have mentioned using grease on the tube, In my opinion
grease will create reliability problems when used in the friction brake system of the Browning Auto 5's
and should be avoided at all cost.
If this all sounds too funky or there are gaps in my explanation I can elaborate on specifics.
Cheers
BB
Starting back in 1968 I have serviced several Auto 5's that were jamming with failures to eject... the rings were set correctly, the tube was dry. Simply greasing the tube made these guns function as they should. I have never seen lubrication cause any damage.
I agree with you guntech, lubrication will never cause damage, I never said that it would.
It will in most cases when dealing with an unmaintained firearm improve function, better to
have some lubrication than nothing at all since a dry friction system will often over brake and cause ejection failures and premature wear.
Where grease will rear it's ugly head is when low temperatures are encountered, the grease will slow down the
operation to the point of failures to eject, this is compounded by todays high velocity loads.
Grease does funny things when the weather gets cold and we hunt cold weather.
Grease is simply not optimum lubrication for this application, It is worse today with rapid pressure spikes and very short durations
they lack the momentum of the older/slower lead loads and the very effective browning system overpowers the load= ejection problems.
Browning has never recommended grease at least I have never seen it in any of my manuals, if you have information to the contrary
please state the source, I would like to know where you get your info. from.
The Browning Auto 5 is a marvel in engineering utterly reliable but pushed to the limit with very light high velocity loads,
if you do things right it will be very reliable. Don't use grease in the braking system especially in the 3" guns with light loads.
Hope this sheds some light.
BB
beretta boy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orillia, Ontario
Not a good idea kam, the frame will get battered, the rings must always be there
only the orientation changes as per the loads used, light or heavy.
The reliability will come down to keeping the gun clean just like all the other guns
except that Auto 5's are a bugger to clean the action area, most guys try to spray out
the action area without dissmantling, it isn't hard but if you have never done it before it
can get tricky and frustrating, it really is a simple system in a complicated kinda way hahaha.
I have taken my hole gun completely apart once in 5 years but the friction ring assembly gets a
teardown after every hunt, it only takes a few minutes. Unless the gun gets dropped into water or mud
there is no reason to tear down the action. The action teardown also lets you get into the REAR spring assembly,
this is very often an overlooked item and can suffer from corrosion just like the front spring, veeeery often overlooked.
Corrosion in this rear assembly will add braking force to the front spring assembly = failure to eject...!
BB
