Browning bbr, safari, a bolt etc
- Thread starter FatCatsDad
- Start date
Vastly superior to the BBR and more recent bolt-action offerings that followed from Browning. Built on the FN Supreme action that many consider the finest refinement of the Mauser 98 (some BRNO owners might disagree!). Fit and finish were far better than anything since by Browning. They had stocks with elegant and subdued design and, for the most part, very nice wood--nicely-figured French or Claro walnut. As wannabe notes, however, some came with salt-wood stocks. These are the ones to avoid.
Your question would seem to imply that aesthetics are unimportant. To many, aesthetics are important and contribute significantly to pride of ownership. The BBR, A-bolt, and X-bolt were cost-saving developments. In addition, many gun owners these days prefer a Mauser 98 or Mauser-derivative action to the modern cheaper actions we see on many rifles of today, and this preference is not simply aesthetic; it extends to operational characteristics. The FN Supreme action, as I’ve noted, is considered by many to be the very best Mauser derivative—smooth-operating, strong, dependable under almost all conditions, with no cost-saving alloy or plastic parts.
Edit. I should add to this post. I focused earlier on only the Browning Safari rifles made in the 60s and early 70s in long-action chamberings, 30-06 length and larger--those that used the FN Supreme action. I should have included the Browning Safaris made during that period in the medium (.308) and short (.223) lengths that used the Sako L579 (medium) and L461 (short) actions. These rifles too were superior in most ways to the later Browning bolt-action rifles and displayed the outstanding aesthetics and build quality of the Browning FN-actioned rifles.
Edit. I should add to this post. I focused earlier on only the Browning Safari rifles made in the 60s and early 70s in long-action chamberings, 30-06 length and larger--those that used the FN Supreme action. I should have included the Browning Safaris made during that period in the medium (.308) and short (.223) lengths that used the Sako L579 (medium) and L461 (short) actions. These rifles too were superior in most ways to the later Browning bolt-action rifles and displayed the outstanding aesthetics and build quality of the Browning FN-actioned rifles.
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No, I didn't mean to imply anything, someone can think aesthetics are the most important thing in the world, or the least important thing in the world. I don't care, its their gun and their preferences.
What I was saying was, directly, aside from aesthetics, how is a Browning Safari vastly superior to modern brownings?
If the metric is "many gun owners prefer a Mauser", it can be countered with the fact that many gun owners do not, and those modern push feed rifles with cost saving materials are doing them just fine.
"I like it better" doesn't really vastly superior a rifle make.
Devils advocate here...
Buddy just brought me over a little older stainless 700 to take a look at in 300 Win, maybe 20 years old, very nice rifle, said he's got less then a 100 rounds through it, looked well taken care of to me.
It stopped ejecting cartridges, extract fine, but would just sit there in the action.
Tore it all apart, everything carbon steel was rusty, not disintegrating rusty, but crusty. Firing pin was a mess, ejector was stuck, anyway got it all cleaned up and sorted out, but just making a point about fixed ejectors, way more robust.
98 style rifles are not for everyone, unless the manufacturer put a lot of time into fitting and finishing, they can be kind of loose and clunky compared to a push feed.
The NICE 98's however can be as tight and smooth feeding as a push feed, you wouldn't know the difference blindfolded.
Those are the ones I like, everything is overbuilt/over kill, from the extractor/ejector/firing pin/trigger mech, 1 piece bolt, smooth as a push feed and you would have to do something very negligent to break any of it.
That said, Abolts are meh, Xbolts have not great triggers and #### mags, BBR's are heavy as #### but can be crazy accurate, 78's are a gem.
Best rifle Browning makes today is the Win 70...flame on lol
Well, if I ever had to put up a rifle to be comparably robust and functional as a Mauser....
It wouldn't be a 700! hahaha.
I've seen 98s need new parts too tho
Including extractors. I'd feel pretty good putting some push feed/non fixed extractor/ejectors up against them though, like an Arctic Warfare style action, a Tikka T3 or the TRG it was designed from, etc.
Considering a Mauser 98 is going to have a dogsh*t trigger unless its either 1) smithed up or 2) has an aftermarket, I'll pardon the Xbolt on its trigger haha
It wouldn't be a 700! hahaha.
I've seen 98s need new parts too tho
Including extractors. I'd feel pretty good putting some push feed/non fixed extractor/ejectors up against them though, like an Arctic Warfare style action, a Tikka T3 or the TRG it was designed from, etc.Considering a Mauser 98 is going to have a dogsh*t trigger unless its either 1) smithed up or 2) has an aftermarket, I'll pardon the Xbolt on its trigger haha
Well, I didn't say "I like it better," did I? Perceived superiority is in many ways subjective, but that doesn't make this perception invalid. You asked about "quantifying" superiority, by which I assume you meant providing an objective rationale. To that end, I would argue that the superior build quality, along with the use of steel throughout makes the Safari a sturdier and more dependable rifle--less likely to fail because of lesser-quality parts, some made of plastic. However, to me the greater pride of ownership alone is sufficient to establish superiority.
Perhaps, in my initial post, I should have said “To many the Safari would be seen as superior to the BBR and more recent bolt-action offerings...." And I think it's hard to see many arguing that the later cheaper Brownings were superior to the Safaris.
Well, considering things like "pride of ownership" are part of what makes it vastly superior to you, I'm not exactly wrong. I'm more interested in the "durability/reliability" part.
I think a Tikka T3x for example will stand up to whatever the Mauser will, certainly during hunting use. If not even more so if its a stainless one. I'm not all that convinced an X-bolt will fail before the Safari does either. Not enough to be considered vastly superior.
I think a Tikka T3x for example will stand up to whatever the Mauser will, certainly during hunting use. If not even more so if its a stainless one. I'm not all that convinced an X-bolt will fail before the Safari does either. Not enough to be considered vastly superior.
Well, there were the pencil-barrel Browning Safaris made on the Sako L579 and L461 actions that ran 6.5 to 6.75 lbs.
The Xbolt plastic rotary mags are it's biggest design issue, that alone (#### trigger aside) is why I don't really like them.
No argument on fit/finish with Xbolts, very pretty guns in wood/gloss blue.
I think a Savage Axis would run just as well and as long as a Tikka, whatever that's worth lol
That would be an interesting experiment, that's for sure lol. When the Savage Axis fails to eject all the time though, is that running just as well? lol. That lil magazine tab on the Axis is something I'd bet money on crapping while the Tikka mag is still working, if that counts.
Do the X-bolt mags have a reputation for malfunctioning/not working? Only shot em, never owned longterm.
The Micro Midas was especially nice...its pretty alright. But I see how the rotary mag, or use of any plastic (whether inferior in reliability or not) ruins it for the "my pride of ownership" guys.
Do the X-bolt mags have a reputation for malfunctioning/not working? Only shot em, never owned longterm.
The Micro Midas was especially nice...its pretty alright. But I see how the rotary mag, or use of any plastic (whether inferior in reliability or not) ruins it for the "my pride of ownership" guys.
Yeah, springs in centerfire rotary mags are just not enough to be reliable IMHO vs a big ass leaf spring in conventional mags.
Ruger even dropped them in the American because they were prone to fail. Replaced with staggered feed conventional mags.
They sure did...have one of each. My rotary mag hasn't worn out yet, but I've heard enough feedback from people whose mags have choked to know there was apparently a good reason for the change.
Could be since 223/300 BLK and not a heavy load on the spring
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Mine is in 308nm. Not a museum piece, shows use, like you would expect from a field grade rifle of probably 60 years. Nice smooth bolt, medium barrel contour, just solid.
On the gm scale, a old heavy Cadillac. Some other 98 manufacturers can run Geo to Pontiac in the same model. Browning high power/Safari are consistently excellent.
On the gm scale, a old heavy Cadillac. Some other 98 manufacturers can run Geo to Pontiac in the same model. Browning high power/Safari are consistently excellent.
FatCatsDad
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Tikka 3x is double the cost of the Safari I'm looking at .
