Browning BSS or WW Greener Deluxe Empire

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I've got a really nice BSS I shoot pigeons and clays with. Would selling the BSS to buy an excellent condition WW Greener Empire be an upgrade or am I wasting my bucks? Is one boxlock stronger than the other?
PS It's safe to say the WW Greener is a prettier gun but I'm not sure if it's any superior in mechanism or durability. I'd be buying it never having held it.

Merry Christmas

IH
 
The Browning is a good sturdy well made gun, somewhat heavy for gauge. The Greener is a good sturdy well made gun as well and noticeably livelier handling than the Browning. Both guns are adequately strong for the ammunition they were designed for if they haven’t been messed with but most English guns were made for 2 1/2” ammo, it’s available but this adds another level of inconvenience and expense. If the Greener has been rebored to remove pitting or the chambers lengthened to 2 3/4” it would need careful evaluation by someone experienced with these guns. The Browning is a modern machine made gun and there are used parts available. The Greener is largely hand made and hand fitted, there are no parts for this, they would need to be hand made and fitted to your gun. Both guns were made to the standard at the time they were built but in the case of the Greener this is probably more than 100 years ago. The Greener will be built to a higher standard than the Browning and will be noticeably nicer handling but if you are happy with the way your Browning handles this may not matter. Personally I would buy the Greener and keep my Browning. After a year or two you’ll know which you prefer and you can move the other one along if you like.
 
Thanks Ashcroft. That's great insight. My biggest concern was repairs on the greener as well. This particular gun was made in the 20's with 2 3/4" chambers that I assume to be stock but will have to ask. The other question is value. I've read that s/s box locks have dropped in value and this one is priced up at 3k so I'll have to do some comparison shopping.


IH
 
Price in the UK have come down, but getting one over this side of the pond is not exactly cheap.

The BSS is nice... But I'm sure the Greener will be "nicer"
Should something break, the BSS can easily be fixed... the Greener can also be fixed, but parts might be harder to come by and will need to be fitted.

This been said, of the two, I'd pick the Greener.
- A BSS can always be easily found at a later date should you want another one... Finding a nice Greener at a reasonable price, can be more of a challenge.
 
One thing you might not think of to check on the Greener - because it has 2 3/4” chambers, if this is original then it was likely made for the North American market. Greener guns of this vintage that were made for the North American market frequently had excessive stock drop by modern standards, often 2 7/8”, 3”” and more at the heel. The shooting style was different 80-100-120 years ago in the USA and modern shooters find these dimensions awkward and conducive to excessive felt recoil. Get the stock dimensions before you commit.
 
IH,
I love Greeners and in my opinion I'd say buy it.
However, and please don't take this the wrong way, if the gun you're thinking of was the one listed in the EE buying it is exactly what I did last week.
That one arrived at my place just this afternoon.
If you've come across another Deluxe Empire I'd certainly be interested to see the pics for comparison though...

From what I can tell the 2 3/4" chambers are original with 1 1/4 oz nitro proofs.
The serial number and proof marks date the gun to 1923-24 I guess.
If it was a 1925 or later gun I understand that it would have 2 3/4" stamped as well to indicate the chamber length, and not just 1 1/4 oz.
LOP is 14 5/8" and the drop at heel I measured at 2 9/16" (just by flipping the gun upside down on the table), which is still maybe a little too much for me.
I don't have a scale but the weight is certainly greater than 7 lbs.
I'm going to contact Greener for the complete details on this one.

I have another Greener gun which I love too.
It's from the 1890's with 2 1/2" chambers, but is a totally different animal altogether and this Deluxe Empire is a beast by comparison.
Pics of the other can be found on page #244 of the 'Show Us Your SxS's' thread:
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...-your-SxS-s-amp-O-U-s?p=17878057#post17878057

This Deluxe Empire I'd call more of a 'pigeon gun' with its heavier weight, 1 1/4oz proofs and 30" full choke barrels.
It's certainly beautiful, in fantastic original condition, and I've never seen another one like it.
It's also exactly what I was looking for for shooting sporting clays.
I have seen pics of the Greener BlueRockPigeon guns, which I understand are a step above this one.
I think sometimes they have 3" chambers and a special raised rib??

I'm not sure how this gun would compare to the Browning BSS, I've never handled/shot one.
I imagine that's a heavier gun too though.


Here are some pics:
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Mike you are correct on the proof marks, both vintage and shell length. 1 1/4 oz = 2 3/4” normally. That is a marvellous Greener, easily over 90% original condition, a rare find in a gun pushing 100 years old. It should make a great gun for trap but it might be choked too tightly for most sporting clays. But hey, shoot it, you’ll soon find out how it fits. You just never know what is sleeping in your neighbour’s closet!
 
I will talk about selling British S x S shotguns from my exsperience with one . I bought one that had all the bells & whistles , looked great,
came in a fitted oak & leather case , plus history of past owner. I paid close to $3,000. After 3-4 years it still worked well but I decided
to sell it. I went through all the steps , as I have bought & sold many hundreds of guns over the last 50 years. Private adds , friends , CATF
paper , gun shows , & this site with many pictures. In the end I took it to Ellwood Epps to sell. I did have a few knowledgeable English
gentelmen tell me how the market for British doubles here is very poor, except for the top ones like H & H. I sold it for about $1500.
(HALF) what I paid. I did injoy it , but will be more carful of the price next time.
 
As with anything, Buyer Beware.

The market for vintage English SxS is collapsing, driven largely by changes in the British marketplace, due to both new rules regarding non tox and a very significant trend to O/U as new British shooters are more likely target shooters rather than hunters.

Additionally on this continent, the market is ignoring 12 gauge, while driving the price of sub gauges through the roof. And the smaller, the higher the price. I have a 28 gauge that, were it a 12 gauge, would be worth 1/4 of what I can get for the 28 gauge.

That said. For those who like to shoot guns, rather than imagine them investments, now is one of the best times to acquire a classic, beautifully made vintage English SxS. Just do your homework.
 
Canvasback and Dilly Thanks guys!
Hopefully 2023 will show a SXS Get Together.
Regardless I hope to see you both out shooting at some point in the year.

And Yes Cooey43 noted on that.
For now I’m just looking forward to shooting this one and not really in the market of buying and selling all that much
 
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