Browning SA-22 / Norinco ATD JW-20 hollow point feeding fixes

LarryG

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I have a friend with one of these (Norinco version) and it shoots perfectly with LR solids. Very accurate and reliable. The problem is the same gun can't feed Winchester 333/555 ammo (primo on gophers: aggressive hollow point). It jams 1 out of 3 on the tip of the bullet. I know some of these guns feed everything, while others only cycle reliably with solids.

So I'm looking for someone who has been down this road, and has gotten a once solid only rifle to shoot any HP ammo. And yes, it has been cleaned up and the feed ramp polished.
 
Jumped the gun, didn't see you had polished the ramp as was my advice.. I also filed mine a bit to change the angle.

When you prime it with the first round do you let it fly forward? Can't baby it.
 
Pretty much have to have a good look at the bullet nose and see how it hangs and on what.

I did a couple Norincos with a battery powered fish hook sharpener, as it was all I had on hand. A Dremel if you have a light touch, or sandpaper onna stick, if you don' trust yourself to do a decent job with power tools, would be what I would use now. The chamber edge was very sharp and was cutting off a slab from the side of the bullets it was not completely hanging up upon.

I ground then polished a fairly large radius on the edge of both guns chambers in front of the feed ramp. Both went from being completely unreliable, to being as good as any out there, as far as semis go. Nether burst and cases or showed any significant bulges from the material removed.

Look closely at the way the bullets are hanging up, and work out he plan from there.

Cheers
Trev
 
I don't think there is a need for modifying the chamber or similar. The culprit is most likely the cartridge guide spring. It has either sharp edges or is protruding too far into the cartridge guide and hangs up on the cone edge.

Here is a parts overview http://www.browning.com/content/dam...e-list/parts/2013/12-arn-432-semi-auto-22.pdf. As detail wants it the cartridge guide spring is not shown but listed between parts# 13/14.

There is also a good video on youtube where a gunsmith points out this issue. All you have to do is take the spring out and polish the end / remove the sharp edges. Do NOT shorten to much. Polish it and test first before removing more material.
 
thanks everyone for your input. he does let the bolt fly forward btw. with the combined information i should be able to fix my friends feeding issue with it. i will check the feeding and try to find the root cause. i have watched a bunch of youtube videos on it and haven't found the one mentioning the spring yet. the idea makes sense though. i will try it out and report back. cheers
 
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I don't think there is a need for modifying the chamber or similar.

You must be psychic then! Amazing!

Just another guess, if you have not actually looked at the way it actually hangs up, and gone through that gun yourself.

In the case of the two I did, it WAS the edge of the chamber that was the problem. It had been left dead sharp at the plant. Dunno. Maybe the convict labor had been shorted on their rice or something, but in any case, once the sharp corner was cleaned up, they both ran fine. Those were two Norc's, and they were pretty rough inside. For under a hundred bucks each new, though...

That video posted is pretty decently done, and covered most of the picky bits about the particular design.

No work without troubleshooting first! :)

Cheers
Trev
 
I don't think there is a need for modifying the chamber or similar. The culprit is most likely the cartridge guide spring. It has either sharp edges or is protruding too far into the cartridge guide and hangs up on the cone edge.

Here is a parts overview http://www.browning.com/content/dam...e-list/parts/2013/12-arn-432-semi-auto-22.pdf. As detail wants it the cartridge guide spring is not shown but listed between parts# 13/14.

There is also a good video on youtube where a gunsmith points out this issue. All you have to do is take the spring out and polish the end / remove the sharp edges. Do NOT shorten to much. Polish it and test first before removing more material.

This is a great thing to check. That's what was causing mine to have some issues. The bullets were being gouged by the end of the spring causing some failures. I polished it with a brass brush on my dremel. Now it runs as good as my 58 Browning.
 
As promised, here is the followup.

I should mentioned that this gun is almost new. Originally, it jammed constantly with 333's. Then it slowly got better until it about 1 out of 3 shots jammed. So it seemed to be wearing in.

I ran a number of test cartridge through the feeding system (cycling the bolt) as I went along to check for function. The first test cartridges came back with some variations, always with a dent right on the front face of the bullet, and also with scuffing along the .22 diameter section and transition areas of the bullet. But I never got it to jam, either with test firing or with cycling. I am convinced that the dent on the front face was what sometimes caused the jams with the gun.
Feeding the bullet by hand into the chamber mimicking the angles it actually sees, I could easily get the bullet to catch on the chamber edge.

The photo below shows the feed path of the 333 in my buddies gun. Taken from the bottom with action open.
1. It appears that the cartridge guide is not perfectly inline with the bore (it sits to the left of the centreline in the photo).
2. Adding to that issue, the bullet nose skids to the left when it is pushed by the bolt as seen by the skid mark.
3. At the end of the cartridge guide (extreme top in the photo) there is a shiny spot which I think is where an extra rub takes place.
4. The edge of the chamber is shiny indicating rubbing there as well. In some cases when I cycled the ammo (safely of course!) I saw gold coloured material collect on that edge.



5. I took it apart and polished and cleaned up the skid marks on the cartridge guide.
6. I checked the spring tip that holds back the bullet. It had a decent radius as far as I could tell, but I gave it a light grinding anyway. So this was not a real issue for my gun.
7. When reassembling the action, I noted that perhaps the cartridge guide was not seated all the way in (i.e. away from the barrel face). There seems to be more of a gap between the guide and the barrel face now. This would increase the possibility of the nose of the bullet hitting the barrel face as it went in as it was before my teardown. Note to self, always push in cartridge guide till it's stop when reassembling.
8. It appeared that the chamber needed the chamfer treatment. First I tried using 1000 grit paper etc to create this chamfer. However it didn't remove much material. Finally, I put the dreml to it carefully.
I then finished it with 1000 grit sandpaper taped to the dreml bit.

9. The chamber as found:



Here is the final result:



10. A few reference photos:

the dreml bit I used on the chamber. seemed to work ok.
I had to sand the result with 1000 grit emery paper.



A cleaning rod inserted to see the level of misalignment between the cartridge guide and the barrel. It is a bit off, but not that bad. If you compare the very first photo with this one, you will see that the gap between the cartridge guide and the barrel seems to have increased. So the cartridge guide probably was not fully seated initially. (There were no adjustments to the barrel nut)



The face of the action before attaching the barrel. From top down: cartridge guide, the bolt firing pin hole then extractor at the bottom. Note, the bolt is definitely not riding in the center of the cartridge guide, but there is no rubbing.



11. It was time to put it together and run some test cartridges through.
On the left are 3 cartridge from the before mods group.
On the right are 3 more done after the radiusing etc.
You can see the dented tip and scuffing in #2
#3 bullet has a dent in the casing.



And #4 5 and 6 have no dent and almost no scuffing.

I was concerned about the misalignment between the bolt, cartridge guide and barrel, but the saving grace is the bolt, as there is enough left to right slop in its movement that it really doesn't matter when the bolt seats on the chamber.

The chamfered/radiused chamber edge did make a big improvement. So I think I've got it fixed. The next step is some accuracy testing.
 
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Thanks for the follow-up and, without it going to your head, great pictures too! :)

Worth keeping in mind that the 'problem', may not be just one thing, but sometimes can be a bit each, of several things that on their own do not cause much grief, but all together do.
It really emphasizes the need for systemic and careful troubleshooting, else you cause more problems than you solve, by just diving in.

Oh yeah. Keep an eye on the extractor cut grooves in the barrel. The claws on the extractor can work them inwards. I have replaced one extractor, a Browning one dropped right in, and was in stock at the Gunsmith I bought it from, in Saskatoon, some time ago.

Cheers
Trev
 
Very nice write up. Good to file away for later, I've been kicking myself for like two years over these guns - CanAm had 'em for like $125 leading up to Christmas a few years ago and I really wish I picked one up...
 
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