Brush Bustin'

Good to see someone testing things out, but its pretty hard to draw conclusions from that test because I don't believe you controlled the uniformity of the impacts of the bullets on the branches enough to have two valid comparisons where the only variable was the cartridge and bullet. Did not most of the shots hit nothing before impacting on the target?
 
It all boils down to physics, specifically, momentum. If a semi and a Mini Cooper are both going down the highway at 100 km/hr and both hit the same snowdrift at the same angle, the Mini Cooper is going to get deviated a lot more than the Semi, simply because the Semi has a lot more momentum.

The formula for momentum is mass times velocity. A simple way to compare the brush busting capabilities of various cartridges is to multiply the weight of the bullet by its velocity and divide by 7000. Where did the 7000 come from you ask? Well, there are 7000 grains in one pound. So for a 500 grain bullet fired from an old Springfield Trapdoor at 1,300 fps, the momentum is 93. Now take your favorite cartridge, do the calculation, and compare.
 
One time I shot a white tail fawn through a screen of willows with a 7x57 Mauser and 154g interlocks. The deer was about 10 yards from the end of the muzzle and a few yards behind the willows. The bullet hit right about where I was aiming but managed to turn 90* sideways leaving a hole in the hide the perfect outline of the bullet. Decent wound channel and a round exit hole.

I looked at the willows after to see if I could find some bark knocked off but I don't think I ever saw the spot/ spots were the bullet hit wood. The largest willows were only half as thick as a pinkie finger, about the diameter of the bullet it's self.

No telling what could happen when deflecting bullets around. Shooting through a tree and having the bullet come straight out the other side is another matter all together and I believe it to be more predictable than glancing deflections.
 
Personally, I lean towards the heavier bullets, not because I believe they buck brush any better than light ones, rather that if they do hit after a deflection, they are more likely IMO, to have enough oomph left to finish the animal, and not do a flesh wound.
 
Grizzlypeg said:
Did not most of the shots hit nothing before impacting on the target?
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most of the shots hit branches before the target I believe. I could barely see the white paper/black bullseye. Scientifc test it is not, but I was bored and figured I would try it, never had done it. :)
 
Interesting the 44 mag holes and the 22-250 holes look about the same size.

I missed two really nice bucks about 5 years ago the same season when I hit saplings about halfway to the deer, neither one was more than 1/2 thick.

I wouldnt shoot anything through that mess, although your deer died twice, you hit what 8 out of 10 shots.
 
It all boils down to physics, specifically, momentum. If a semi and a Mini Cooper are both going down the highway at 100 km/hr and both hit the same snowdrift at the same angle, the Mini Cooper is going to get deviated a lot more than the Semi, simply because the Semi has a lot more momentum.

The formula for momentum is mass times velocity. A simple way to compare the brush busting capabilities of various cartridges is to multiply the weight of the bullet by its velocity and divide by 7000. Where did the 7000 come from you ask? Well, there are 7000 grains in one pound. So for a 500 grain bullet fired from an old Springfield Trapdoor at 1,300 fps, the momentum is 93. Now take your favorite cartridge, do the calculation, and compare.
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Then again a Mini Cooper can fit between obstacles that a semi would hit and be deflected by.A bullet that doesn't hit any obstacles has a much better chance of hitting the target nose first and expanding properly than a bullet that hits an obstruction.
 
Levi Garrett said:
Were you aiming to hit the trees or the tgt, I was just wondering if all the rounds impacted wood before tgt.
Great post !
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Considering all the variables, it has to be a difficult test to do from an objective point of view. It's virtually impossible to take shot after shot through the same degree of resistance or brush interference. I guess you'd have to shoot a sizeable volume of ammo in a number of calibers at a given target and try and judge on a basis of the trend in group size as it relates to the various calibers.

In discussion on the topic with a shooting buddy, we're in the process of attempting to come up with a test procedure of sorts, just in an attempt to satisfy our own curiosity on the topic, if nothing else. We're tentatively thinking of three calibers, a 22 cal varmint, a 30 cal and one of the 'big boys'. We're thinking of at least ten shots/caliber and as best as possible, trying to keep the degree of interference as equal as possible for each shot. I think this might take a while as well as a lot of effort.
 
Levi Garrett said:
Were you aiming to hit the trees or the tgt, I was just wondering if all the rounds impacted wood before tgt.
Great post !
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trying to hit the target :) I shot from a few different angles, I basically tried to get a somewhat clearish view of the target that gave me a pretty high chance of clipping some crap on the way there
 
todbartell said:
trying to hit the target :) I shot from a few different angles, I basically tried to get a somewhat clearish view of the target that gave me a pretty high chance of clipping some crap on the way there
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:D It was still pretty cool, musta sounded cool also :D
Johnn Peterson
That I will be watching for :cool:
Read a few mags on it , one fella had 1x4 in a screen sorta format, and the tgt , darn I forget, 15 ft , or yds :redface: anyway bullets were cutting paper sideways , some come apart, turned a rifle bullet into buckshot:D
Thanks eh!

Got to thinking about this test, and the wonderful photo Tod, and wonder if anyone, or you would try this one, take a cutout of a deer, Adult, and place it there. Back off 25, 50, 75, and 100 m.
Walk a track , lets say 25 meter....to the right , and left, that makes you think, do I twist my spine, or switch to the backhand..:D
For data collection, maybe stop every 5 meters, to shoot, with up and down slow movement allowed, but only allow one foot to move once stopped.
I just figured , why test something that we all try to avoid, getting on target
, saving a tracking job, and meat maybe, our ultimate goal. so we see how often we can get it thru, at what range/% , and makes us aware of this , even when that big fella shows, and you can't even move:D, your messed up..and the bloods a pumping.:D
 
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Levi Garrett said:
Johnn Peterson
That I will be watching for :cool:
Read a few mags on it , one fella had 1x4 in a screen sorta format, and the tgt , darn I forget, 15 ft , or yds :redface: anyway bullets were cutting paper sideways , some come apart, turned a rifle bullet into buckshot:D
Thanks eh!
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To keep the resistance or interference as equal as possible for each caliber and also for each shot taken, my dilemma is what kind of 'medium' to shoot through. For me, that's the biggest variable in making the experiment an equal playing field for each caliber and actually each shot. Any input guys? Also, any suggestions on the distance from the resistance medium to the target?
 
Johnn Peterson said:
To keep the resistance or interference as equal as possible for each caliber and also for each shot taken, my dilemma is what kind of 'medium' to shoot through. For me, that's the biggest variable in making the experiment an equal playing field for each caliber and actually each shot. Any input guys? Also, any suggestions on the distance from the resistance medium to the target?
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You would need to build a rack with equal size dowels for it to be perfect. Shoot through a few layers of racks at intervals, like a real brushy forest.
 
I too was going to suggest a rack, but with willow branches instead of wooden dowels.

It shouldn't be too hard to gather a bunch of bundles of willows roughly the same size.

Several racks would be ideal, as Gatehouse suggests.

You could also test the 'brush rack' closer to you, or closer to the target.
 
If you built a jig to hold the dowels, perhaps two pieces of plywood, one top, one bottom, with holes for the dowels to fit into, so they would always be at the same angle.
Then cut a small hole in the front of this box of dowels, through which all bullets must pass without hitting the edges of the hole, thereby assuring a very similar trajectory.
Damaged dowels would be replaced after each shot, or rotated, thereby again assuring that the same points of impact were possible with each dowel.
I suggest the 'box 'o dowels' be placed appropriately for brush type shooting. In my area, that would be inside 50 yards.
 
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