BSA Martini .22

albayo

albayo

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Anyone had experience with BSA Martini .22's?
I have a really nice gun but the barrel is loose.
It will turn slightly and is loose in the threads.
How do I tighten it up without having it go to a smith and cost a small fortune?
I thought about shimming it with something like a crush washer similar to an AR 15.
 
Good quality teflon pipe sealing tape should tighten it up, just not sure how it would stand up to a lot of shooting...........but with a .22 it should work fine. Don't use the cheapo thin stuff from off shore.
 
Willy Tincup said:
Good quality teflon pipe sealing tape should tighten it up, just not sure how it would stand up to a lot of shooting...........but with a .22 it should work fine. Don't use the cheapo thin stuff from off shore.
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No. This is terrible advice. Take it to a smith and have him re tighten it. It should actually take, at most, 5 minutes. That is unless you have other problems as well.
 
I'm curious because the barrels are hand detachable, after removing the screw.
I suspect that the OP has tried tightening the screw, and the barrel is still not firmly in place.
 
This suggests the pinch screw is either missing or buggered up, or that the pinch screw thread in the receiver is buggered up or even both. And that means a proper replacement and possibly a proper repair is needed.

Albayo, on the left side at the front of the receiver at mid height should be a coin tightened screw head about 3/8 inch diameter that sticks out proud of the side face and which can work as a thumb screw once loosened. That's the pinch screw intended to lock the threads tight. If it's not there look on the other side to see if the rest of the screw is still in the hole. If it is then the screw was broken off by a previous owner's mis-treatment Or if you can see daylight right through this hole then the screw simply worked it way out and has gone missing. If it's simply not there then you'll need a new one. If it's broken you'll need a new one and to remove the old portion.

If the screw is present but it's constantly stiff to turn and never tightens down like it should that's a sign that the threads for this pinch screw are stripped and the job will require more than just a new replacement screw. It's very likely that the threads in the receiver are damaged and need attention. It'll likely involve making a new pinch screw with the next size up thread size as the old threads won't be salvageable. And unless you have a machine shop in your basement or garage and the knowledge to use the tools this is a job for the gun smith.

Forget about using a crush washer or any sort of shim. Without the pinch screw properly in place the result of trying to tighten the barrel will force the clamping down split in the receiver to open up even more. That will allow the threads to start deforming or even skipping over each other due to the load moving to the crests of the threads. Nasty damage will result from that. Besides the head spacing relies on the barrel being seated at the proper depth. Anything you use as a shim will open that up.

So deal with the pinch screw depending on the situation to fix it properly. These are relatively valuable and desirable guns. Especially since you're saying it's in nice condition. If you Bubba it not only will you risk damage to the rifle but the value will drop like a stone.

As for teflon tape? Willy, no disrespect but I'd suggest you take your guns to a proper smith from now on. That was a HORRIBLE suggestion considering it didn't have a smilie on the end of it indicating it as a joke.
 
tiriaq said:
OK, how would the 'smith tighten it in 5 minutes. Curious.
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I guess it would entirely depending what model we are talking about. Unless I am missing something not all BSA Martini's used a takedown system or a set screw. Some were threaded directly into the receiver and not secured by anything but those threads. This should take a few minutes to diagnose and fix, supposing everything lines up after torquing.

If it is one of the take down models, or other removable barrel models, then either the tapered pin is damaged (or missing?) or the clamping mechanism is damaged. These issues could potential take much longer. However without knowing the model and without any more useful analysis, it would be difficult for anyone to make a proper diagnosis.
 
Pictures would save a lot of guessing as to what is going on.

A missing takedown screw seems the obvious first guess. A mismatched, random installed barrel the second. If someone stuck a non-takedown barrel on and called it good enough, essentially.

Showing the tapered locking pin that should secure the barrel.

Showing it in place in the action, in the threads.


This is a BSA action from a Model 12 or 13 I think. I don't have the barrel that as originally with it.

Cheers
Trev
 
buckbrush said:
Great quality pictures and explanation Trev.
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Thanks. Took those to post here today.

Sorta trying to figure out how to accurately duplicate that taper pin, as well as make a reamer that would fit into the action so I can put the appropriate notch on a threaded barrel that I have for it.

The taper is a bit of a booger to set up to duplicate, as it is a hardened pin, with ground surfaces, but the head is knurled, and not that easy to hold well without doing it damage. I think I will end up clamping a piece of copper sheet around the knurls and fiddling it into alignment at both ends in a 4 jaw chuck, but...well, going to cross that bridge eventually!

Cheers
Trev
 
Blastattack said:
No. This is terrible advice. Take it to a smith and have him re tighten it. It should actually take, at most, 5 minutes. That is unless you have other problems as well.
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It's not a simple matter of torquing the barrel in, the extractor cut must line up with the extractor or 'bad things happen'.

Worse things than teflon tape have been done! <cough> JB Weld <cough>...

If he action does not have provisions to clamp the barrel tight, either a pin, or a split and screw system per some Marks of the BSA Internationals, then a copper or aluminum crush washer between the barrel and the action may be worth exploring, provided that the headspace can be kept within reasonable limits.

Lots of badly fitted rimfire barrels held in with locktite too. Just sayin', not recommendin'.

Pictures of the gun would really help, some details and specifics, like whether the parts are original or put together, and what specific model it is or was, are pretty much needed to accurately and safely come up with a solution or solutions.

Cheers
Trev
 
trevj said:
Thanks. Took those to post here today.

Sorta trying to figure out how to accurately duplicate that taper pin, as well as make a reamer that would fit into the action so I can put the appropriate notch on a threaded barrel that I have for it.

The taper is a bit of a booger to set up to duplicate, as it is a hardened pin, with ground surfaces, but the head is knurled, and not that easy to hold well without doing it damage. I think I will end up clamping a piece of copper sheet around the knurls and fiddling it into alignment at both ends in a 4 jaw chuck, but...well, going to cross that bridge eventually!

Cheers
Trev
Click to expand...

is it possible that is the same taper as an American taper pin and reamer? Machinery's handbook should have the dimensions.
 
trevj said:
Lots of badly fitted rimfire barrels held in with locktite too. Just sayin', not recommendin'.
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Border Barrels, in the UK has been making absolutely first class barrels for some time. They make drop in replacement barrels for Anschutz target rifles. The older Anschutz rifles had the barrel retained by two vertical tapered pins. Border's instructions are to bond the barrel in place. Not only is the barrel secured, no stresses from pinning are created. The pins are replaced to fill the holes, there being a clearance groove machined into the barrel shank..
 
I've not had my own BSA apart yet but I've got a take down Greener Martini and ASSUMED they were the same- and we know where THAT goes. So I've got to fall on my sword a little for a light flesh wound for the confusion related to assuming that it used a pinch bolt similar to the Greener setup. Still, the rest of it applies. It still needs to seat correctly as mentioned by Trev to both head space and line up the extractor.

Which still leaves me wondering where Albayo's taper pin is? And would we even be able to find such a thing these days? I'm thinking that this is going to require a new one to be made. It's clearly not a damage thread any longer.

That taper pin is going to be a tough one. There's no way of knowing if the knurling is axial to the taper. I foresee a lot of back and forth indicating between the small end and the large end before this sucker is trued up enough to set the compound.
 
buckbrush said:
is it possible that is the same taper as an American taper pin and reamer? Machinery's handbook should have the dimensions.
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It is the old problem of Standards. There are just so many Standards to choose from! Taper Pins are no different, there are a couple still in use, as well as a couple that have faded into obscurity.

Kinda a guessing game as to whether they used an 'off the shelf' taper or came up with something that made sense to the guy that had to make it at the time, but eventually I will have to get a grip on it fairly well.

tiriaq said:
Border Barrels, in the UK has been making absolutely first class barrels for some time. They make drop in replacement barrels for Anschutz target rifles. The older Anschutz rifles had the barrel retained by two vertical tapered pins. Border's instructions are to bond the barrel in place. Not only is the barrel secured, no stresses from pinning are created. The pins are replaced to fill the holes, there being a clearance groove machined into the barrel shank..
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Yep. But there IS a difference between those, and a "badly fitted" barrel being lockited in. Adhesive technology is wonderful stuff, but it is not supposed to be a substitute for good workmanship.

BCRider said:
I've not had my own BSA apart yet but I've got a take down Greener Martini and ASSUMED they were the same- and we know where THAT goes. So I've got to fall on my sword a little for a light flesh wound for the confusion related to assuming that it used a pinch bolt similar to the Greener setup. Still, the rest of it applies. It still needs to seat correctly as mentioned by Trev to both head space and line up the extractor.

Which still leaves me wondering where Albayo's taper pin is? And would we even be able to find such a thing these days? I'm thinking that this is going to require a new one to be made. It's clearly not a damage thread any longer.

That taper pin is going to be a tough one. There's no way of knowing if the knurling is axial to the taper. I foresee a lot of back and forth indicating between the small end and the large end before this sucker is trued up enough to set the compound.
Click to expand...

As he has not checked in and given us more to go upon, we should perhaps wait to see what he has to say about his rifle before we solve a problem which may or may not be the correct one.
The Greener uses a cross bolt to pinch together a cut on the underside of the action, yeah?

Yeah, getting that indicated in so I can dial it on the compound was one of my stumbling points, for the reasons you give. Another option for me is to dial it with a fairly sensitive indicator on a surface plate or facsimile of, and do a sorta reverse sine plate idea on it and work it out that way. I miss having access to an optical comparator! :)

Cheers
Trev
 
not an expert ,If it is a take down and the barrel is loose /wobbly in the battery position there may be a loose thread issue with either the receiver or barrel and that will affect the head space and might see a bit of a buldge between the chamber and the extractor .
if there is a buldge one route will be to move the barrel back a couple of threads and orient the barrel properly and use torque to hold the barrel in. As the tapper lock pin will be out of alignment .Re cut the chamber and extractor and minor refitting of the forend and either leave the holes from the taper pin or plug the holes and the rifle is no longer a takedown .
I haven't seen the rifle or the fired cases and this is just an opinion .
cheers Peter
 
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