buck shot

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dutchhunter

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i have a rant .why do so many people have so much to say about how bad buck shot is .we down in southern ont have been forsed to us shotguns to hunt deer for many years and yes we have tested every kind of shell we can to find what works best for the hunt we do .how many guys do you thin k would spend there hard earned money on shells year after year if thy did not work .myth about buck shot is that 00buck is the way to go and this is just not so it comes from the old western tv shows .the size of the pellets in oobuck do not allow for maximum pay load down range there is to mch space between the shot a smaller pellet will fit a lot more in to the shell and the difference in size is minamel compared to the number of pellets you gain .the more pellets you can send down range the more energy you can put on target.buck shot is not ment to be shot at a deer at 100 yards .but i will say at 50 yards in the bush it is very deadly on whitetail size animals .it has been used in africa for 100s of years to kill anaimals that bite back why becoues it works .if you are going to s it you must test it in your gun to find your effective range as each gun will pattern different .i would love to carry a 308 or a 270 but it is not going to happen so we make do with what we have and will continue to do so hipfully for many more years to come .we donot need people bashing one type of ammo over another it does no good for anybody .it is just like the guys that bash crossbow hunters saying that it isnot archery .comeon . my 2 cents DUTCH R:d:
 
Well Dutch, I've been vocal in my dislike of buckshot for general use on big game before and you haven't won me over now. If the argument is one of performance, that of buckshot vs slug, there is no argument, as the impact performance of the slug, any slug, is superior to the results obtainable from buckshot, under a wide variety of applications. Buckshot has its place, but IMHO it is best employed for very specific circumstances and does not represent a reasonable choice for general use on big game. I can think of no situation where buckshot could be employed that a slug is not superior. Sometimes though, that superiority can be a disadvantage, such as when over penetration might endanger other people. That is the primary reason why I have a few buckshot loads in the sidesaddle of my 12 ga.

The myth of buckshot is that it makes up for poor marksmanship, or at the very least, it makes close range hits on difficult targets easier. This simply is not true under most circumstances. If the target is very close, the shot must be made with rifle like precision or the undispersed pattern will miss the target as surely as a poor rifle shot will. The African use of buckshot in modern times is confined to the follow-up of wounded leopards in thick cover. This is one of those specialized situations where buckshot works better than anything else. If the cat is encountered in long grass at very close range, like 6', the shot will not have dispersed to make hitting easier, so the only advantage of the shot vs a bullet is that it will not destroy the skull of the client's trophy. That and if the PH (the client does not participate in the follow up of a wounded leopard) is armed with a semi-auto shotgun he has a weapon that can be used much more intuitively than maybe the case with a rifle.

IMHO, today there are only two reasons to use buckshot while deer hunting. The first is that you live in a jurisdiction where buckshot for deer is mandated by law. The other reason is that your experience doesn't give you a reference for comparison. I can't believe that anyone who has killed animals with buckshot, slugs, and bullets, would intentionally choose shot over a single projectile. If buckshot produces clean kills you have no reason to change, but if you are shooting out to 50 yards, the pattern will have huge holes in it, and only a small percentage of the pellets will actually land on target. If you are shooting through vegetation, that will takes another percentage of the pellets out of the equation. Any pellets that hit the large bones of the frontal chest and shoulders might limit the animal’s mobility, but do little towards killing it. The fact is that large pellets shot stay in a tight pattern longer than do small pellets, so the argument that #4 Buck is more lethal than 00 at 50 yards is flawed.

Energy does not kill animals. Depriving the brain of oxygen, or directly destroying the brain kills the animal. Preventing the lungs from operating, or interrupting the flow of oxygen rich blood to the brain kills the animal. Even if you put all of your pellets on target, and even if the shot column is heavier than the slug, the slug will still produce a more significant wound, as the impact velocity is higher, and the wound volume is larger, and thus less likely to close up.

I agree with you that hunters should not criticize other hunter who do things differently provided their activity is legal, however, a good debate over which projectile is better, provides a better understanding of the subject for all concerned.
 
we down in southern ont have been forsed to us shotguns to hunt deer for many years and yes we have tested every kind of shell we can to find what works best for the hunt we do .how many guys do you thin k would spend there hard earned money on shells year after year if thy did not work
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speak for yourself not we.

We down here in southern ontario have switched to slugs because WE have seen how spotty the effectiveness of buckshot can be.

wewewewewewewewewewewe.

I just had to pee..............
 
I shot a coyote a couple weeks ago with buckshot and it dropped right where it was.

Federal 12 guage, 3", 00 buck out of a full choke bolt gun. About 90 yards and 10 pellets hit from what I could find. For a 15 pellet load that's pretty good IMO.

The gun patterns good with those shells and that's what makes the difference.

Buckshot has it's place like anything else. Where it should/can be used is up to the shooter depending on his experience and comfort level with the load. There is no difference between me taking that shot as I did vs. someone with less experience (or that can't aim as well) doing it with a slug.

Max distance I'd take a shot on a deer with that shell/gun combo would be 75 yards in the clear. It's all about knowing your limits regarding any given situation.

If one thinks buckshot can be used out to 200 yards they're full of s**t and have likely never tried it.
If they think it shouldn't be used past 20 yards they either have had a bad experience or don't trust they're abilities and/or self control.

Not everyone that uses buckshot sprays and prays and shoots at sounds in the woods. In the end dead is dead, so long as it's quick and ethical who cares what people are shooting. Legalities have nothing to do with it, we have enough laws governing our lives, we don't need more based on things that are simply perceived by some.


oh and I forgot ... Yayyy another buckshot bashing thread in the making. Divide and conquer....
 
lucky07 said:
I shot a coyote a couple weeks ago with buckshot and it dropped right where it was.

Federal 12 guage, 3", 00 buck out of a full choke bolt gun. About 90 yards and 10 pellets hit from what I could find. For a 15 pellet load that's pretty good IMO.

The gun patterns good with those shells and that's what makes the difference.

Buckshot has it's place like anything else. Where it should/can be used is up to the shooter depending on his experience and comfort level with the load. There is no difference between me taking that shot as I did vs. someone with less experience (or that can't aim as well) doing it with a slug.

Max distance I'd take a shot on a deer with that shell/gun combo would be 75 yards in the clear. It's all about knowing your limits regarding any given situation.

If one thinks buckshot can be used out to 200 yards they're full of s**t and have likely never tried it.
If they think it shouldn't be used past 20 yards they either have had a bad experience or don't trust they're abilities and/or self control.

Not everyone that uses buckshot sprays and prays and shoots at sounds in the woods. In the end dead is dead, so long as it's quick and ethical who cares what people are shooting. Legalities have nothing to do with it, we have enough laws governing our lives, we don't need more based on things that are simply perceived by some.


oh and I forgot ... Yayyy another buckshot bashing thread in the making. Divide and conquer....
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Thats a very good pattern for 90 yards.

I would like to see that on paper though. 10 pellets in what, a 24" circle at 90 yards. I would put a decent bet on that, I think.
 
I shot one doe with buckshot, never again. 30 yds in the head and neck, lucky to be able to follow her up and shoot her again. I hav"nt shot deer with slugs, but I have shot lots of goats with them. Slugs are devastating even at 100 yds, buckshot just does'nt have the energy or patterns even close to that. I carry buckshot any time I carry a shotgun just in case I see a coyote within 50 yds.
 
Waterfowler said:
Slugs feed hunters.

Buckshot feeds coyotes.
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I have to agree with this. I cut up a nice buck from a hunt a few years back and found a single pellet lodged against the spine about 4" from the skull. The wound was well heeled and was from at least the season before. I live in Southern ON and in shotgun only areas it's slugs only for me.
 
I picked up a few deer hides to build an authentic dog sled, the hides I got had copper plated 00 buck shot stuck in the hide, the copper plating had begun to flake off and the pellets were deformed. If I ever thought about using buckshot for deer those hides pretty much assured I will never use buckshot on any 4 legged critter over 50 lbs. A slug is vastly superior to buckshot at all ranges. Dutchhunters reference to using buckshot in Africa to follow up large toothed critter is valid, but the only reason this is done is that you essentially jab the big cat as it pounces on you and pull the trigger, the buck shot will act as a frangible slug and the pellets are likely to do more damage than a single slug ,many experienced Leopard hunters used to carry spears to stop leaopard charges.
 
I use buckshot in one situation only. When im pushing deer through swamps. Sight lines are 15m or less. Behind the buckshot is a slug. Im using a 870 with 21in smooth bore rifle sighted barrel.

Ive patterned it out to 25 yards and see no reason why it shouldnt drop any deer
 
i think the major problem with buckshot is people dont spend the time finding the right load for their gun/choke. the second huge problem is people dont understand that buckshot should be used at typical bow ranges...max of 40 yards for most.

people take long shots or shoot loads that pattern poorly in their guns and then tell everyone that buckshot sucks. finding the perfect load for your gun is both expensive and time consuming so most just stick to what they think works good. i figure you should try at least 3 chokes and as many different loads as you can find before settling on a load to use.

slugs are the better option overall, but in thick cover and where shots will be limited to 40 yards buckshot is deadly on deer.

lets say you find the load/choke combo your gun likes. there is no way a deer wont drop in a short distance when at least half (9) of the 00 buck pellets in a 3 1/2" shell hit the vitals at 40 yards. take the shot at 50+ yards and chances are you wont find the deer....

that said, around here most deer are shot at less than 30 yards when bow hunting so buckshot would be deadly if people would take the time to find the right combo and stick to taking "bow hunting" shots.

most wounded deer you see or shoot are the result of human error, not equipment failure.
 
So Dutch, I am assuming that you and yours have taken many deer over the years with buck shot. What I want to know is out of X # of deer, how many have taken pellets through the abdomen, i.e. liver, stomach, intestines, spleen, etc.? In this discussion I could care less if they dropped on the spot or not, just where they were hit.

And Boomer, your comment about safety when shooting around others in an emergency, I have to say I respectfully disagree. Any projectile heading in the general direction of a bystander (or bear chew toy) is bad news. I used to work for Brinks way back when, and we were issued both buck shot and slugs for the truck shotgun. Think about it, 9 round lead balls, bouncing and skipping down the sidewalk! Needless to say the buck shot always got left in the cup holder.

Now I know in a bear defense situation there are likely no sidewalks about, however, 9 (or more) lead balls may come out the far side of a bear at a variety of angles, no? I would much rather have ONE projectile to worry about, then 9 or 15, or 18.
 
dutchhunter said:
would you have shot the doe in the head with a slug .why would you have tryed it with buck shot
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I didn't shoot the deer my self, I collected the hides from a few of my frieneds to make the sled, the load used on the one was Federal's 3 1/2 inch 18 pellet load, the deer was shot according to my friend at approximately 35 yards with is head down slightly quartering away, my friend shot at the sweet spot behind the shoulder, the deer was hit and took off, two shots later it expired for good. I collected 12 pellets from the hide that didn't penetrate the deers thin layer of fat. I attrribute 2 or three of the stopped pellets to the deers shoulder, however several were found well behind the shoulder. With a slug in the same place the deer would have run out of steam much more quickly. The doe we estimated weighed 110 lbs alive.
 
Pudelpointer said:
So Dutch, I am assuming that you and yours have taken many deer over the years with buck shot. What I want to know is out of X # of deer, how many have taken pellets through the abdomen, i.e. liver, stomach, intestines, spleen, etc.? In this discussion I could care less if they dropped on the spot or not, just where they were hit.

And Boomer, your comment about safety when shooting around others in an emergency, I have to say I respectfully disagree. Any projectile heading in the general direction of a bystander (or bear chew toy) is bad news. I used to work for Brinks way back when, and we were issued both buck shot and slugs for the truck shotgun. Think about it, 9 round lead balls, bouncing and skipping down the sidewalk! Needless to say the buck shot always got left in the cup holder.

Now I know in a bear defense situation there are likely no sidewalks about, however, 9 (or more) lead balls may come out the far side of a bear at a variety of angles, no? I would much rather have ONE projectile to worry about, then 9 or 15, or 18.
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They don't issue slugs anymore.
 
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