Buckshot

Brutus said:
Brobee, have you given buck & ball a try?
I have a ten gauge Parkhurst coachgun choked full and full. Wonderful birdshot pattern but buckshot success kind of elluded me. The only viable load was #4 buckshot stuffed to the gills.
I read about US Army ordnance manual of 1842?
They garnered that British buck and ball load well thought of during French and Indian War and later Civil War.

In BP cartridge shotgun is viable with measures to center the load within the shell. And instead of tied cotton pouch I merely glued a .490 round ball over three 000 buckshot. Shot both barrels point of aim at 30 yards. Weird triangular bullet strike in the paper target.
A strange newish slug?

I think it's only viable due to lower pressures of black powder.

Info.
Click to expand...

Actually, I tinkered quite a bit with Buck & Ball in 12ga.

The best load/pattern I got so far is with this load .... an S&B slug with 14 #4 buckshot pellets .... in a 3 inch 12ga shell.
(Gun was an 870 Police with fixed Improved Cylinder)

For those who are interested there are several threads on this topic over at Castboolits.

https:// castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?339590-Buck-amp-Ball-Once-again



Slug_n_Buck_No6_lowlow.jpg



Slug_and_Buck_No6_14Pellets_No4Buck_20Meters_lowres.JPG
 
I know buck and ball is in theory mostly a tool of warfare. Maybe not so great for hunting or protection in the wilderness.
I did glean one bit of info though. While loading buck & ball it seems it's better to have the buckshot underneath behind the larger RB for smaller grouping.
Perhaps the larger RB creates its own shockwave thereby pushing the forward smaller pellets outward enlargening the group. Whereas if the smaller pellets behind the RB tend to ride in its wake so too speak.
I vaguely remember the 1842 Army ordnance manual repeating this important loading sequence with muskets of the day.
 
love reading about buckshot patterning and the videos. has anyone done any 20ga patterning? i did quite a bit with mine. the choke tubes made a big difference. my best results have been with a carlsons turkey choke and rem 2 3/4" #2 buck. puts all the pellets on a coyote sized target at 50 yds. it's my favourite walk around gun
 
I've loaded #3 buck in WW hulls in 20ga 2 3/4" and they worked fine.Had to cut the wad petals off per recipe and "nest" the pellets.A little more tedious than birdshot but that's half the fun.
 
I should have said #3 buck. Old age again. I have thought about reloading for the shotgun but haven't yet. I do some for rifle, shotgun seems like more complications
 
Brutus said:
I know buck and ball is in theory mostly a tool of warfare. Maybe not so great for hunting or protection in the wilderness.
I did glean one bit of info though. While loading buck & ball it seems it's better to have the buckshot underneath behind the larger RB for smaller grouping.
Perhaps the larger RB creates its own shockwave thereby pushing the forward smaller pellets outward enlargening the group. Whereas if the smaller pellets behind the RB tend to ride in its wake so too speak.
I vaguely remember the 1842 Army ordnance manual repeating this important loading sequence with muskets of the day.
Click to expand...

Maybe, BC has some shotgun with shot only areas. Shot is defined as having 8 or more, more or less round balls and they must be #1 Buck or larger for Big Game and Coyotes. I can certainly see the smaller buckshot drafting behind the RB.


To my way of thinking, a .69 cal roundball over 7 #1 Buck pellets may be the most effective load that can be developed and stay within the definition of "shot". The .69 cal ball doing the heavy lifting beyond ~30 yards.
 
What I thought was the Rhodesian buckshot load is in actual fact the Malay load. The Rhodesian SAS were there too during the Emergency. Consisted of a kind of duplex load.
00 buckshot or SSG on top of BB shotload.
The Brits purchased Browning Auto 5 with Mod choke 28 inch barrel. The Malay Scouts were provided Remington 870s twenty inch barrel cylinder choke. The Brits there reported in the jungle shotguns created more causalities than any other weapon platform.
Even Martini Henry constabulary shotguns were utilized as a guard gun at some static positions.
 
Since last hunting season ended I have been thinking about trying this upcoming season for a deer with buckshot. This is all great information, I need to do some pattern testing as well with Federal Power Shock 00, Challenger 00 and some #4 buck loads. By the sounds of it a couple boxes of Remington 000 need to be picked up too. I bought a Carlson Dead Coyote choke a couple years ago but haven't yet given it a go. Tighter constriction then full, I wonder how it will pattern different loads. I always intended to use it with #4 buck for coyotes I bought some heavi-shot #4 buck recently. I do think for my first buckshot deer I will try 00 or 000. I have had great success at shooting them at 35/40 yards with a rifle. I want to mix it up this year coming. Glad Brobee commented I love his videos, and info.

Am I correct in saying the two general combinations that work the best are Cylinder bore and high tech wad (flite-control/versatite) or simple wad and full choke?
 
NSHUNTNFARM said:
Since last hunting season ended I have been thinking about trying this upcoming season for a deer with buckshot. This is all great information, I need to do some pattern testing as well with Federal Power Shock 00, Challenger 00 and some #4 buck loads. By the sounds of it a couple boxes of Remington 000 need to be picked up too. I bought a Carlson Dead Coyote choke a couple years ago but haven't yet given it a go. Tighter constriction then full, I wonder how it will pattern different loads. I always intended to use it with #4 buck for coyotes I bought some heavi-shot #4 buck recently. I do think for my first buckshot deer I will try 00 or 000. I have had great success at shooting them at 35/40 yards with a rifle. I want to mix it up this year coming. Glad Brobee commented I love his videos, and info.

Am I correct in saying the two general combinations that work the best are Cylinder bore and high tech wad (flite-control/versatite) or simple wad and full choke?
Click to expand...

You should really check the technical specs your Carlson Dead Coyote choke. There very well might be an upper limit for shot size.
Example: I have a Cation Xtra full turkey choke. The maximum shot size I can use with it is #2 birdshot according to the manufacturer.
Many newer coyote chokes are designed for T or F shot maximum.(.22 diameter)
 
BAC4 said:
Funny just got home from the range. Recently purchased a Beretta 1301 and a red dot with the intention of using it for turkey hunting. Zeroed the red dot this a.m. and tried some turkey loads. When i finished patterning the turkey loas,for she?ts and giggles screwed the cylinder choke back in and tried a Federal flight control 9 pellet 00 buckshot round at 30 yards. All 9 pellets in a 4" X 6" pattern. Think I might use this for our shotgun deer hunt. More testing will be done at a later date though.
Click to expand...

I have read a bit that the Flight Control rounds are good for mitigating recoil. I have not found any at any of my LGS, not in stock or out of stock. I'd be interested in trying these out.

Has anyone here tried the Challenger brand, either the Shortshell 4 buck, or the Magnum 00 buck (9 pellets)? I don't see this in too many reviews/comparisons.
 
thegazelle said:
I have read a bit that the Flight Control rounds are good for mitigating recoil. I have not found any at any of my LGS, not in stock or out of stock. I'd be interested in trying these out.

Has anyone here tried the Challenger brand, either the Shortshell 4 buck, or the Magnum 00 buck (9 pellets)? I don't see this in too many reviews/comparisons.
Click to expand...

I don't know about the flight control wad mitigating recoil but it seemed to pattern well.
 
I see Estate Buckshot in 25 round boxes in the store, anybody tried it or know who makes it? I suspect it is the Federal XM127 in a different box.
 
Took advantage of me and the kids having Friday off and did more testing of the Remington 2-3/4" 000 Buckshot.

At 125' (41 yards), it grouped in 10"H x 8"W, with 5 pellets I could cover with my hand.

At 150' (50 yards), 11"H x 7"W for 7 pellets with the 8th a foot low from center. Again with 5 pellets I could cover with my hand and 3 pellets very close together.

Gun was a Plain Jane 1947 Ithaca M37 with Full Choke, on the box Remington recommends a Full Choke.

I suspect the 000 pellets are large enough to draft off each other and the question seems to be how far is 5 or 6 close strikes from a ~71 grain 36 caliber roundball ethical to use on a deer sized animal.

It also seems like a big mistake to buy a fixed cylinder bore gun with plans to use it for buckshot. I'd love to get my hands on some of the fancy wad buckshot, but at this point I am highly skeptical that it will outperform a Full Choke gun with 000.
 
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