Budapest M-95 Stutzen Marking Questions

[Drachenblut]

Hello All,

I have taken a look at the Hungarian Weapon's Site about the M-95 and it answered alot of questions, but some markings just confuse me and I am hoping someone here can help me to ID them. The first I know is the AOI for Italian East Africa. The yellow lettering is interesting, it is a B on both sides of the buttstock, in opposite directions. Under that, written across the butt spine, is 8(I think a 1? looks odd)1P1PA, under this, 51. Under that a stamping of 387.

Also, I'll mention the harder to see images:

a 4 digit and 1 letter code on the buttstock

The top of the reciever has the proper W-n, but no date and it almost looks like the faded remains of an Eagle's heads/spread wings (on a Budapest rifle?) and finally a small spot of 5 little punch marks.

The faint picture on the foremost part of the buttstock reads E.S.A.
12

I forgot a picture, but the underside of the pistol grip is written V, then a line under that, then a 2 then an A under that.

Under the wood, on the underside of the barrel is a 3 digit number code, 970. Could this be the date of manufacture? Also... I found sand under the barrel, there is no rust. The barrel has green "British Khaki Tropical" paint on it, and I should mention in closing that the bore is in great shape in the original 8X50R

Cheers,
Drachenblut

 

[JP]

WW1 reparation payment by Austria to Italy consisted of rifles such as yours, those ended up in Italian Colonial use (AOI marking denotes that fact). Read more about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_East_Africa

 

[Drachenblut]

Anyone else?

 

[JP]

P.S. Italian Vetterli 1870/87 and 1870/87/16 are also often with the same AOI marking.

 

[Claven2]

This might answer some of your more basic questions:
http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=2007

 

[newfoundlander]

The carbine is one of many that were sent to India and the near east for training and local issue after being captured in North Africa and Ethiopia. These guns can be identified by Indian arsenal stenciling and other treatments. Ammunition was actually made by various Indian arsenals such as Dum-Dum. Also included in this cache were 1888/90's, Vetterli 1870/87's and God knows what else the Italians issued to local levies.

 

[Drachenblut]

Very neat! Any other ID's of the markings friends?

 

[newfoundlander]

The 970 is an assembly code found on a lot of Viennese Steyr pieces of the period. It's hard to tell from the pics but the numeral stamp placement over the chamber would indicate your gun was made in either '07 or 1917. Judging by the rougher finish of the metal I'd say it was the latter. The stamps in the wood are a mix of Austro-Hungarian (obliterated mostly) and Italian inventory codes. The bolts on Austro-Hungarian pieces have no serial numbers but AOI pieces often exhibit stamped numbers applied by the Italians in the interwar period during rebuilds. Many of these guns were either issued in the condition they were received when acquired as war reparations or were built entirely from salvaged parts.

 

[newfoundlander]

Actually on closer look it does look like a 1907 piece as the "0" was often dropped on guns made between 1901-1909. At first glance it looked like it might have been lightly struck but the "7" is quite deep. Out of curiosity do the witness mark on the receiver and barrel line up? Although it might only be the angle of the camera they don't seem to in the pic.

 

[Drachenblut]

I am sorry, I am new to these guns Newfoundlander, could you please explain to me what you mean by a "witness" mark? The serial numbers match in line to eachother on the barrel and reciever. How do you mean the 0 was dropped? Sorry for sounding silly, but I am honestly new to these terms.

 

[newfoundlander]

The witness marks are reference mark struck on the barrel and receiver to help line them up when the gun was first assembled. These marks are found on the M95 series of weapons at top dead center at the front of the receiver and rear of the barrel over the chamber. The reason I ask is the barrel on your rifle was taken from a Steyr manufactured gun originally made in 1907 (the zero was indeed often dropped) and then put on a Budapest receiver. The serial number on the barrel is in all likelihood a re-stamp applied when the carbine was rebuilt. You have a really interesting carbine for sure! If the marks on the barrel and receiver don't align perfectly I wouldn't worry to much. These marks were applied for in-house use and it's quite likely that Budapest and Steyr machining were not entirely in synch when it came to barrel timing.

 

[Drachenblut]

Hello Newfoundlander,

The marks you refer to are not lined up. It does seem to be a "Repairation Cobbler" that was built in 1918 or 1919. Or possibly a "last ditch" rifle in 1918. Who knows?