Anyone have thoughts on the best budget (+/- $2K) AR in 308? I assume accuracy is all pretty close (1 to 1.5 MOA). But, I see some comments suggesting that the Armalite rifles are problematic? Many are saying good things about the Panther/Remington? What about RockRiver? Who is the most reliable? Whose product offers the best parts compatibility/availability? Who provides the best barrel? Is the pMAG option (DPMS only) the best mag in the bunch? Give us your thoughts please!
Budget "AR-10" - Armalite / DPMS / RRA?
- Thread starter degreeszero
- Start date
For the money i don't think you can beat the DPMS 308's...
The Remington R-25 may be slightly cheaper but the "camo" finish turns a lot of people off. If you want a "Black Rifle" 308 then the DPMS models offer a lot for the money.
Right now we've got 2 different models in stock... 18" Bull Barrel for $1,799.99 and the 24" Fluted Barrel for $1,999.99.
You need to really jump up in price to move into the LMT's, POF's or Knight's.
Mark
The Remington R-25 may be slightly cheaper but the "camo" finish turns a lot of people off. If you want a "Black Rifle" 308 then the DPMS models offer a lot for the money.
Right now we've got 2 different models in stock... 18" Bull Barrel for $1,799.99 and the 24" Fluted Barrel for $1,999.99.
You need to really jump up in price to move into the LMT's, POF's or Knight's.
Mark
Thanks Mark. Can you also provide the LR-308 AP4 version of the Panther at a reasonable price? How about the pMags?
And, you also sell the RRA ... are they solid, any issues emerge?
But if you could get an new Armalite for +15% (same for the RRA), would you want it? There are lots of them for sale in the US for not much more than a Panther; I'm just hearing a lot of people say they have issues. They also require expensive Armalite mags, where the DPMS accept the cheap and rugged pMAG. Any thoughts? /neil
You're right...my personal experience with Armalite's AR-10T wasn't a good one. The company's troubleshooting guys not offerring any advice, or even offerring to take a look at it. Once I diagnosed and corrected the problems (at no small expense) I traded/sold it . I just couldn't "trust" the rifle--i.e. I almost expected the rifle to malfunction even though things had been worked out, taking my concentration away from making otherwise great groups.
I imported a DPMS from Questar prior to the great 2008 Gun Rush. Very happy, accuracy equalling or exceeding my bolt-action precision rig(s). And it came in around the 2K mark---(this was before the big import fee increase)
I have an AR 10 with a 24 inch match barrel and love it. I made the lower from scratch and put an upper from wolverine on it. I have put 600 rds thru it so far without a single malfunction. A friend of mine sat beside me with his dpms and had a half dozen failures to feed in 3/4 hour.
That's interesting. Those uppers, I believe came direct from DND; is it possible that DND was provided a higher grade, milspec product that is not equaled in the sub $2k guns on the shelf in the USA? Obvious, your custom build lower was built to exacting specs, likely with choice components too?
At $750 for a complete upper including match barrel, badger ordinance free float tube and bolt carrier, it was a bargain. The case deflector wasn't even marked. Add a PRS buttstock for $300 and a lower parts kit for about $120, and you have a $1200 ar10. The one thing is the 24 inch barrel makes for a BIG gun, but I'm not carrying it around. And right now you can get 4 mags for $200 so at $50 each it isn't unreasonable.
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^^Even if you added a few hundred for the lower, you'd still be under 2K.^^
Realistically I think you'd be fine going either way. If deep inside you're unsure about buying an AR-10, then buy the DPMS .308. If it doesn't work, it will suck regardless of the manufacturer and if it runs great, you'll feel that much better about your purchase
Realistically I think you'd be fine going either way. If deep inside you're unsure about buying an AR-10, then buy the DPMS .308. If it doesn't work, it will suck regardless of the manufacturer and if it runs great, you'll feel that much better about your purchase
A couple of things to add:
I own a DPMS and an Armalite AR-10 target tactical.
I've had zero reliability issues with either rifle. The most common cause for reliability issues with the AR-10 rifle is the magazine.
With the DPMS the polymer mags that originally shipped with the rifle caused a number of problems. This was fixed with the current metal mags which are excellent (compatible with original AR-10, Remington R-25 and Knights SR-25).
The Armalite rifle ships with a Generation 3 mag which is a modified M14 magazine. I've seen first generation mags and they are very different than the generation 3 ones. Again reliability issues are most likely to be magazine related.
Which brings us to the Rock River Arms Rifle. This is the failed Bushmaster AR-10 rifle they couldn't get to work. RRA bought it and took a long time to get it to market. While I do trust RRA to make a good product (love their AR triggers), I suspect that the main issue with the rifle was getting a FAL mag to work with the AR-10 system. Armalite had an excellent article on why they chose the M14 mags and not the Fal ones. It again went to reliability issues. The main reasons for Armalite's choice was the assault rifle ban, availability and reliability.
Of the three rifles I like the current DPMS metal mag system the best. There's no comparison.
I wouldn't count on getting one of those Armalite rifles for under 2K. The inexpensive uppers were very well used ex military uppers. There are a number out there that were only lightly used and not military issue, however they were very hard to find and cost a lot more. Then there is the issue of finding an AR-10 lower (The AR-10 rifles of various brands aren't compatible with each other. Ie you need a lower and upper that will mate. A DPMS lower won't work with an Armalite upper). You're generally looking at 3K for a new Armalite, or a very lightly used tactical target model (If you can find one).
On a side note, you'll need to upgrade the triggers for both. The Armalite "match" trigger is much better than the stock DPMS (Which really sucks). However it's not that great. The RRA two stage match works well. There are better but the price goes up.
DPMS LR-308 on the left. Armalite AR-10 Target Tactical on the Right.
I own a DPMS and an Armalite AR-10 target tactical.
I've had zero reliability issues with either rifle. The most common cause for reliability issues with the AR-10 rifle is the magazine.
With the DPMS the polymer mags that originally shipped with the rifle caused a number of problems. This was fixed with the current metal mags which are excellent (compatible with original AR-10, Remington R-25 and Knights SR-25).
The Armalite rifle ships with a Generation 3 mag which is a modified M14 magazine. I've seen first generation mags and they are very different than the generation 3 ones. Again reliability issues are most likely to be magazine related.
Which brings us to the Rock River Arms Rifle. This is the failed Bushmaster AR-10 rifle they couldn't get to work. RRA bought it and took a long time to get it to market. While I do trust RRA to make a good product (love their AR triggers), I suspect that the main issue with the rifle was getting a FAL mag to work with the AR-10 system. Armalite had an excellent article on why they chose the M14 mags and not the Fal ones. It again went to reliability issues. The main reasons for Armalite's choice was the assault rifle ban, availability and reliability.
Of the three rifles I like the current DPMS metal mag system the best. There's no comparison.
I wouldn't count on getting one of those Armalite rifles for under 2K. The inexpensive uppers were very well used ex military uppers. There are a number out there that were only lightly used and not military issue, however they were very hard to find and cost a lot more. Then there is the issue of finding an AR-10 lower (The AR-10 rifles of various brands aren't compatible with each other. Ie you need a lower and upper that will mate. A DPMS lower won't work with an Armalite upper). You're generally looking at 3K for a new Armalite, or a very lightly used tactical target model (If you can find one).
On a side note, you'll need to upgrade the triggers for both. The Armalite "match" trigger is much better than the stock DPMS (Which really sucks). However it's not that great. The RRA two stage match works well. There are better but the price goes up.
DPMS LR-308 on the left. Armalite AR-10 Target Tactical on the Right.
Thanks much Epoxy for this detailed response. Indeed, I've read the Armalite rationale on the M14 mag choice. I guess a plus for the Armalite rifle for many here, is the cross-compatibility of mags for anyone that may also be running an M14 variant and want an AR platform 308. I read that with any of the metal 308 mags, one is wise to strip, debur and polish a bit before putting them to use.
Anyone try the GEN3 Armalite mags in a Norinco M305? Can you rely on them?
Ahhh....but your AR-10 isn't what you'd call a "factory" rifle now, is it?
With respect to Armalite fans, I'm sure Armalite has worked out their problems since I got mine (a couple years after they first came out). Still, their prices are higher and for that I was able to afford more add-on options when I ordered the DPMS.
Most gun magazine evaluations (if you believe them) have given the accuracy edge to the DPMS rifles when you look them up and compare the two,
Ahhh....but your AR-10 isn't what you'd call a "factory" rifle now, is it?
With respect to Armalite fans, I'm sure Armalite has worked out their problems since I got mine (a couple years after they first came out). Still, their prices are higher and for that I was able to afford more add-on options when I ordered the DPMS.
Most gun magazine evaluations (if you believe them) have given the accuracy edge to the DPMS rifles when you look them up and compare the two,
That is true. My Armalite rifle is the same model as his ie a Target Tactical. The barrel is a 1:11.25 twist match barrel. Mine shoots Federal Gold 168 at .5 moa. Might be able to get a bit smaller once I swap out the trigger to something better.
I haven't had any problems with either of mine. Both are very accurate semi autos.
degreeszero
I don't think you can swap the mags between the M14 and the Armalite. At least not without modifications. The Armalite mags have undergone numerous mods. The Generation 1 mags even look very different from the Generation 3 mags.
I have to say the only reason I own the Armalite is for the fact that this rifle was special (Has Canadian History), it was a rare opportunity to own one like this, and the price for what the rifle is was actually very reasonable. Otherwise I would stick with the DPMS.
I don't think you can swap the mags between the M14 and the Armalite. At least not without modifications. The Armalite mags have undergone numerous mods. The Generation 1 mags even look very different from the Generation 3 mags.
I have to say the only reason I own the Armalite is for the fact that this rifle was special (Has Canadian History), it was a rare opportunity to own one like this, and the price for what the rifle is was actually very reasonable. Otherwise I would stick with the DPMS.
Thanks Expoxy. Indeed, cross-capable mags would be just too good to be true these days. Have you used the pMAGs in your DPMS?
