Looking at getting into a semi auto 223 an kind of landed on a wk180c based off price point. After doing lots of looking on CGN I noticed lots selling lower wk180c recievers? I'm new to the AR platform but not new to guns an building them. So curious if it's more cost effective to buy a lower an a upper plus all the other parts? What that would entail vs a new wk180c around 1200-1300$ roughly. Thanks all input is helpful, even links or websites to more info on how they work/building one. Thanks!
Build a WK180C or buy new one?
- Thread starter jethrocummins
- Start date
Great question. Personally for me, if I was to do it again, I would build one from scratch. There have, unfortunately been both historical and current accounts of the factory-built and assembly quality being inconsistent. A number of owners like myself who bought new are now taking it apart just to perform preventative maintenance on it to mitigate common issues from occurring or trying to prevent an outright failure of particular parts. This is mostly in the realm of loctite-ening various screws and such. Some parts a number of owners have simply replaced, and other parts owners have added (ie. the TNA bolt release/lock). It would appear as if the quality of a factory built on is hit and miss, so building it from scratch may not be a bad idea.
Just a note that many are selling WK lower receivers because generally superior lower receivers are available, if you can splurge a bit more. There is also a superior upper from one manufacturer, with another to shortly follow. If you don't mind the somewhat box nature of the WK (and original MCR's) lower receiver, then by all means get one. Here are the other options:
The TNA Lower receiver has a straight angle magwell (people have complained the 180 opposite of AR-15 angel magwell is not ergonomic), and can use beavertail grips with a generally more ergonomic grip area. The matching upper has a brass bushing where the piston enters the upper (instead of nylon on the original), a built in brass deflector, and ejection port cover. The upper also has a BCG with a charging handle that addresses one of the biggest failures of the WK; while it still screws it, it has an indexing nub that fits into a corresponding well on the BCG, which both prevents the handle from snapping off and from it unscrewing with use.
SBI has their Lynx lower, which has an more ergonomic grip area (but does not take beavertail grips), is lighter, and takes AR-15 trigger pins (instead of the longer WK/MCR specific ones). The rear section is modular, secured very well but swappable between AR-15 buffer tube, 1913/Picatinny Rail, and Magpul Zhukov stock mounting modules. Their upcoming upper will have svelter then the originals, and use swappable side panels that allow you to choose between right ejection/charging, left charging/right ejection, and ambi-charging/right ejection. Their upcoming DI BCG will allow use of a gas tube instead of the piston to impinge the recoil system, removing the piston as a failure point and allowing re-use of the complete for-end from a donor prohibited firearm, even with a low-profile handguard (though said handguard would have a step down from the receiver rail portion to the handguard portion). The BCG will have a non-screw in, well secured charging handle. We don't know if SBI will be producing its own piston BCG, or if the DI BCG will also work with the piston.
The Spectre LTD. WK specific Spec180 lower is lighter, and has a more ergonomic rear grip area and can take beavertail grips.
You can get an all steel WK upper from Kodiak (also from True North Arms) that comes with non-screw in charging handle on the BCG. You can get this same BCG seperately; it is used with the steel upper because it is known to be a bit loose and scratch the inside of the receiver along the charging handle slot, which is why the screw-in charging handle was introduced. This turns out to have been a mistake, as the screw in handle both unscrews on its own and has been known to snap. It may be preferable to use the non-screw in handle BCG and handle with the aluminum upper; the cosmetic damage may be preferable to the problems with the screw in handle.
Regardless of the receiver you, if you're going the piston route True North Arms sells a rifle length piston and Third Echelon sells a mid-length piston, both of which may help reduce wear and tear on the rifle and have a more pleasant recoil impulse. The WK is known to be overgassed to deal with crap ammo and cold conditions, but this can cause the rifle to pound itself apart over time. That is why thread locking the gas block is important, as a known failure point is the snapped piston. If the gas block loosens, it can rotate out of alignment, and that torsion stress can cause the piston to eventually snap. TNA will also be releasing a revised copy of their adjustable gas block; when this is available, it can be used to dial back to the gas to just enough to get your preferred ammo to cycle cleanly, which would reduce the stress on the rifle, while still giving you the option to open things up if conditions or ammo become more averse.
If you do use the original WK's BCG, it is advisable to either get a newer Kodiak bolt handle with a shoulder at the top of the screw portion to prevent the bolt from snapping or the enhanced strength bolt handle form SBI. In either case you may want to use thread locker to keep them from flying out, though this locker will have to be broken each time you need to field strip the rifle.
Good luck with your WK build!
The TNA Lower receiver has a straight angle magwell (people have complained the 180 opposite of AR-15 angel magwell is not ergonomic), and can use beavertail grips with a generally more ergonomic grip area. The matching upper has a brass bushing where the piston enters the upper (instead of nylon on the original), a built in brass deflector, and ejection port cover. The upper also has a BCG with a charging handle that addresses one of the biggest failures of the WK; while it still screws it, it has an indexing nub that fits into a corresponding well on the BCG, which both prevents the handle from snapping off and from it unscrewing with use.
SBI has their Lynx lower, which has an more ergonomic grip area (but does not take beavertail grips), is lighter, and takes AR-15 trigger pins (instead of the longer WK/MCR specific ones). The rear section is modular, secured very well but swappable between AR-15 buffer tube, 1913/Picatinny Rail, and Magpul Zhukov stock mounting modules. Their upcoming upper will have svelter then the originals, and use swappable side panels that allow you to choose between right ejection/charging, left charging/right ejection, and ambi-charging/right ejection. Their upcoming DI BCG will allow use of a gas tube instead of the piston to impinge the recoil system, removing the piston as a failure point and allowing re-use of the complete for-end from a donor prohibited firearm, even with a low-profile handguard (though said handguard would have a step down from the receiver rail portion to the handguard portion). The BCG will have a non-screw in, well secured charging handle. We don't know if SBI will be producing its own piston BCG, or if the DI BCG will also work with the piston.
The Spectre LTD. WK specific Spec180 lower is lighter, and has a more ergonomic rear grip area and can take beavertail grips.
You can get an all steel WK upper from Kodiak (also from True North Arms) that comes with non-screw in charging handle on the BCG. You can get this same BCG seperately; it is used with the steel upper because it is known to be a bit loose and scratch the inside of the receiver along the charging handle slot, which is why the screw-in charging handle was introduced. This turns out to have been a mistake, as the screw in handle both unscrews on its own and has been known to snap. It may be preferable to use the non-screw in handle BCG and handle with the aluminum upper; the cosmetic damage may be preferable to the problems with the screw in handle.
Regardless of the receiver you, if you're going the piston route True North Arms sells a rifle length piston and Third Echelon sells a mid-length piston, both of which may help reduce wear and tear on the rifle and have a more pleasant recoil impulse. The WK is known to be overgassed to deal with crap ammo and cold conditions, but this can cause the rifle to pound itself apart over time. That is why thread locking the gas block is important, as a known failure point is the snapped piston. If the gas block loosens, it can rotate out of alignment, and that torsion stress can cause the piston to eventually snap. TNA will also be releasing a revised copy of their adjustable gas block; when this is available, it can be used to dial back to the gas to just enough to get your preferred ammo to cycle cleanly, which would reduce the stress on the rifle, while still giving you the option to open things up if conditions or ammo become more averse.
If you do use the original WK's BCG, it is advisable to either get a newer Kodiak bolt handle with a shoulder at the top of the screw portion to prevent the bolt from snapping or the enhanced strength bolt handle form SBI. In either case you may want to use thread locker to keep them from flying out, though this locker will have to be broken each time you need to field strip the rifle.
Good luck with your WK build!
Wow that was a plethora of knowledge I wasn't expecting! I'll definitely take it all into consideration. I am a heavy duty mechanic by trade so building/assembly is no issue. More less curious on keeping this budget friendly. It's just hard to know exactly what you need for a build as if a lower is striped there seems to be lots of pins/bushings etc that you need for full assembly, same I would think with upper. Be nice if there was a rough parts list or something. Either way thank you so far for the info an I'll continue to wait an hear back on more input!!
Colin let me know at the end of December this will be 'several months at minimum'.
Download the WK manual
https://www.wolverinesupplies.com/docs/default-source/product-manuals/kodwk180c_productmanual.pdf?sfvrsn=a7529fd7_2
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i suggest buy and then modify. i think the canadian 180's are not as universal or standardized as even the manufacturers think. tolerances that are not important to one vendor become an issue for a combination of parts from two different vendors. a great example is the issue a forum member is having with a wk upper and sbi lower. the wk upper works with the wk lower but not the sbi lower (yet, anyway). but the sbi lower works with some wk uppers - there is a variation in tolerances in the wk upper that don't impact their lower but do impact that from another vendor. there's issues with interferences with bolt catches, mag catches, trigger pins, safeties, etc., depending on what you use where. different handguard mounting, barrel mounting, pistons. vendors bringing propriety systems to market that then stop supporting them as the market evolves so quickly.
i think folks used to the AR world where everything is milspec and sorted-out expect the same from the 180 world and it's not there yet.
i think folks used to the AR world where everything is milspec and sorted-out expect the same from the 180 world and it's not there yet.
Thanks for the info! Some people posted some do-it-your-self gas adjustments using set screws on my "Is the WK/MCR Factory Default Gas Setting Adverse Mode? thread" , https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2227759-Is-the-WK-MCR-Factory-Default-Gas-Setting-Adverse-Mode .
That makes perfect sense theradiumking, it does seem like Canadian manufacturers are trying to make AR rifles that accept the abundance of quality AR parts that are non restricted or prohibited, hence why for being new to the AR/semi auto centrefire world is why I'm going with the wk180c. Seems to be most common at reasonable price of 1200, for getting into the hobby of tactical shooting at my home range an for coyote control. I have some that are AR style but 22lr but want to get into the centrefire since I already reload for hunting an PRS style shooting. Being a mechanic just trying to research which route I go. I wouldn't mind buying a used wk180c but even them are usually only 100$ off new... So will keep researching an waiting for more to post here. Thanks for the manual as well from above!!
The quality control on the MCR seems to have been stronger then on the WK, as there seems to be less reported problems. It has been many months since the MCR used a roll pin in the BCG or it used a 3D printed spacer between the handguard and the receiver, two of the earlier issues with the MCR. I have not heard of pistons snapping as much on the MCR as the WK, so it's possible it is not as over-gassed as the WK, or it components are better made. And the MCR used a non-screw in charging handle that doesn't unscrew and fling away or break off. Plus default MCR lower has been upgraded to the Spec 180, with a more ergonomic and aesthetically pleasing grip area that supports beaver tail grips. All the above make the MCR a better value then the WK. The greater availability if the WK is an advantage, though. A True North Enhanced WK is probably in par with the MCR. And a regular WK may work well enough if rebuilt properly. Good luck with whatever option you select!
Ya I have been doing research on them both to. But every point you made is a good one. The MCR really is just same but with all the flaws fixed. So I guess if I'm buying new, mine as well try n find a MCR for few hundred more if available. If used an good deal on a WK can always fix up the few things as I'm not shy to building/rebuilding or even doing some machining. Thanks for the input!
The wk180C Gen 2 was just released, so perhaps the MCR no longer has the edge
Where is this info? Diff between Gen 1 and Gen 2?
edit
Never mind, I found your thread ref the new version
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...Released-at-Shot-Show-2022-Pictures-linked-to
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Here's the main thread, https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2235544-WK180C-Gen-2-Released-at-Shot-Show-2022-Pictures-linked-to.
Hi all
Seen today at Shot Show is the WK180C Gen 2
Pictures can be seen here https://imgur.com/a/qInUJPQ
From the looks of it we can see that there is:
Upper
- A new gas piece that replaces the gas screw & cup with a single extended banjo bolt for easier dissasembly and removal
- A rear captive pin (one of 2)
- A non reciprocating left side charging handle (finally CH issues be gone!)
- An approx 15' MLOK handguard
- A C clip is being placed in front of the gas block to prevent movement
Lower
- A new bolt hold open/release that can be actuated with the shooter's thumb
- A front captive pin
- A rounded lower
- A squared off magwell
No changes to the trigger from what I saw but we can all fix that ourselves.
FRT remains the same, this is the same firearm.
Price? Likely to be matching the WS-MCR with these changes
Full Sized Image, https://i.imgur.com/6SUWOFz.jpeg
Full Sized Image, https://i.imgur.com/MK62gvK.jpeg
Full Sized Image, https://i.imgur.com/ib2SvxW.jpeg
Yes I did see that the gen 2 came out! Definitely gonna wait tell it hits the shelf hopefully in month or two an if it's reasonable pick one up. If it's closer to 2000$ I'll probably just pickup a used MCR since people will probably try offloading there old WK or mcr for the new gen 2. So used prices should drop a bit! Time will tell!
Do you guys think the new upgraded Gen 2 is significantly better then the ws-mcr???
Do you guys think the new upgraded Gen 2 is significantly better then the ws-mcr???
Yes it's better than an MCR
Arguable. The magwell angle and use of stanard AR-15 trigger pins and safeties are both definite plusses. If the improvements to the gas system prevent pistons snapping, this should bring that portion up to the par with the MCR. The non-reciprocating charging handle should solve the charging handle breaking, but this also means it can't be used as a forward assist, and we don't know if Kodiak's implementation will proven dependable, or have some other problem yet. Unless someone really loves the non-reciprocaing charigng handle and straight magwell angle, the MCR is probably still the safer bet, at least until we see how dependable the WK180-C Gen 2 is in the long run. The changes overall are positive, and hopefully Kodiak will have less WK issues going forward.
