Building a custom action.

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steveyb4342

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Hi all I'm new to CGN, my name is Stephen. I have a question about building a custom action but first I'll give you a quick background. I have hunted for some years now {not going to give an exact number due to my age and laws} and I have also done some target shooting at my local range. I have decided that I would like to build a "precision" rifle in .338 lapua. It will be used for long range target shooting and as a secondary function possibly white tail deer, coyote, black bear and moose. Because funds are tight.... and because I ike to build and work on things I plan on doing most if not all the work myself. If it works out right the only things i will be buying are a stainless steel Lilja barrel and im hoping to buy either a bushnell 4200 or a leupold VX-III {does anyone know if they will withstand the .338?}. On to my main question, I plan on machineing my own action with the help of some experienced machineists out of stainless steel the only problem is i need some more info on how the action will need to be preped to recieve the barrel. For example what kind of threading procedures and is there anything that i need to know or is it a simple thread in design? Also do the Lilja barrels come threaded? Sorry if any of this sounds dumb, im used to off the shelf stuff :runaway: lol.

Thanks Steve
 
I would suggest making a de Haas vault lock action (single shot falling block) which is designed with the hope shop in mind. I would suggest buying your barrel precontoured as opposed to a straight blank and if the barrel comes prethreaded then thread the action to suit (since you are making the action anyway). Books by de Haas have a section in the back with the thread dimensions of many single shot and bolt action rifles (two books) which will give you an idea of what is traditional. Would strongly suggest using a V thread and not a square thread.
Finally since you are on an economy budget, would suggest making your own chambering reamer, with spade bits with integral pilots being the easiest to make.

cheers mooncoon
 
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steveyb4342 said:
Hi all I'm new to CGN, my name is Stephen. I have a question about building a custom action but first I'll give you a quick background. I have hunted for some years now {not going to give an exact number due to my age and laws} and I have also done some target shooting at my local range. I have decided that I would like to build a "precision" rifle in .338 lapua. It will be used for long range target shooting and as a secondary function possibly white tail deer, coyote, black bear and moose. Because funds are tight.... and because I ike to build and work on things I plan on doing most if not all the work myself. If it works out right the only things i will be buying are a stainless steel Lilja barrel and im hoping to buy either a bushnell 4200 or a leupold VX-III {does anyone know if they will withstand the .338?}. On to my main question, I plan on machineing my own action with the help of some experienced machineists out of stainless steel the only problem is i need some more info on how the action will need to be preped to recieve the barrel. For example what kind of threading procedures and is there anything that i need to know or is it a simple thread in design? Also do the Lilja barrels come threaded? Sorry if any of this sounds dumb, im used to off the shelf stuff :runaway: lol.

Thanks Steve
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It doesn't sound dumb but it sure rings of inexperience and no idea of the task ahead. I would suggest a lot of research and reading for a few years.
 
guntech said:
It doesn't sound dumb but it sure rings of inexperience and no idea of the task ahead. I would suggest a lot of research and reading for a few years.
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I have to agree with guntech here, lots of research needs to be done before putting a cutter to steel. The first step would be to check you local range to see if the .338LM is safe to shoot. In my opinion the .338 LM is overkill for any of the game you mentioned.
 
sounds like an interesting project. I myself have already made up some SolidWorks models of a rimfire bolt action that I hope to build with the help of a friend who owns some CNC milling and turning machines, although I wonder at the legality of it.
 
mooncoon said:
I would suggest making a de Haas vault lock action (single shot falling block) which is designed with the hope shop in mind. I would suggest buying your barrel precontoured as opposed to a straight blank and if the barrel comes prethreaded then thread the action to suit (since you are making the action anyway). Books by de Haas have a section in the back with the thread dimensions of many single shot and bolt action rifles (two books) which will give you an idea of what is traditional. Would strongly suggest using a V thread and not a square thread.
Finally since you are on an economy budget, would suggest making your own chambering reamer, with spade bits with integral pilots being the easiest to make.

cheers mooncoon
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Thanks mooncoon, I will look into your suggestions. I am hopeing on buying the barrel precontoured and prethreaded. Do you know where i would pick up one of these de haas books? Can you explain why you would use a V thread instead of a square thread? Is the V more rigid? Yea i will also talk to the machineist about a chambering reamer as he is the professional lol. By the way would you happen to have an exploded view of the de haas vault lock?

For the rest of you, yes i realise i am inexperienced that is why i sought the help of my friend who is a professional machinist and avid hunter for years now. But if you dont start somewhere youll never learn and i plan on being over his shoulder every step of the way. As for the calibre being too big, I realise it may be a bit overkill but if you knew the landscape i was shooting on I plan on bear hunting where the bear will be quite far away. Last but not least if im not allowed on a range my father owns 356 acres of land 15 of which are feilds, ill find somewhere there lol.

Thanks Steve
 
You should realise that critical action components are very highly stressed - much more than typical steel can take. Also, non-destructive examination is used to insure material integrity - all this stuff requires very specialized skills - typically beyond those of a good machinist.
I'd suggest you follow established plans c/w material specs (if there is such a thing), or simply pick up a decent used action - a used M-17 action is less than 100$.
Otherwise, you may be up for some Darwin awards!
 
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dan belisle said:
"The first step would be to check you local range to see if the .338LM is safe to shoot."

Excuse me? - dan
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Some ranges may not be licenced for .338LM.
Connaught ranges I don't think are licenced for .338 LM and the only DND range that it is allowed here in Ontario is Borden.
 
steveyb4342 said:
I am hopeing on buying the barrel precontoured and prethreaded.
Steve
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This is a backwards step. Part of making an accurate rifle is fitting the barrel to the action, not fitting the action to a pre-threaded barrel.
 
Source of de Haas books would be www.abebooks.com which is an online bookstore listing books for many stores.
The reason for V threads is that they are much easier to fit to a snug fit; square threads seem to go from too tight to too loose almost instantly, in my experience.
Like Guntech and others, I also feel that you first need to do a lot of reading and general research before jumping into your project. I also feel that while there is an advantage in buying a precontoured barrel (to avoid warping) I also would agree with guntech on doing the threading yourself.
I also have to wonder at how much time your machinist friend is willing to devote to building the gun for you presumably unpaid. If he is paid for the work, you are better off to simply buy a gun of your choice. There is a tremendous amount of work involved in building a gun, even for a skilled machinist.

cheers mooncoon
 
Welcome to this board steveyb4342. There are no dumb questions only dumb replies :rolleyes: Here are some of my thoughts on your questions. I'm no gunsmith, but there is a reason why the majority of gunsmiths don't make their own actions. A major one, no doubt, is that it is not cost effective. I know that one doesn't apply in your case. But surely the engineering involved in designing the action and bolt must be daunting. It would be easier to make a barrel IMHO.

What I would do in your case is; obtain a complete action, either new or used. Maybe even buying a good used complete rifle. You can sell off any parts you don't want to use and recover some of the cost. Then, get a good costom barrel. Lilja barrels are excellent but don't eliminate the Canadian barrel makers, they make custom barrels as good or better than Lilja. Buying Canadian can save you some more money :D It's probably cheaper to get a competent gunsmith to chamber your barrel since a reamer will set you back more than it costs to get your barrel chambered. You can do all the preliminary work such as barreling the action and lapping the bolt lugs. If the existing trigger is to your satisfaction, use it. Otherwise, buy a good quality after market trigger. This you can do later when you have more funds. Again selling the existing trigger at that time will reduce your overall cost somewhat. You can make your own stock or get an aftermarket stock of your choice. You may also want to put a muzzle break on your barrel. It'll be a whole lot easier to shoot in LR matches and your shoulder will thank you for it :dancingbanana:

Finally, get a good quality, steel picatinny style scope base and solid steel scope rings. Spent as much money as you can afford on selecting a scope. In the medium price class, I would select any of the Leupold target scopes. They will not disappoint. You can always upgrade later and sell your Leupy for a good price. Bushnell Elite scopes are quite good, but I don't know how they would stand up to the hard recoil of the .338. Again, a muzzle break would help. However, if you want to compete in the DCRA F-class competitions, a muzzle break is not allowed :(

Good luck with your project :)
 
OK im going to try and answer this all at once. I realise that building an action is a daunting task, but how many guys can say they built their own actions? Also on top of that did i mention my family also has 3 engineers in it? So i have excess to 2 machinists and 3 engineers. But....RifleDude how cheap of an action could i pick up in .338? I would be game for that but the actions I've seen are usually about $1000 a block of 416 stainless steel from wholesale might run me $50 but i doubt it. I dont mind spending a more than that but it will be taking away from what i'd get for optics or barrel. The stock I will make custom for my body out of a carved honeycomb then 2 layers of carbon fiber. I have a trigger i can use. I dont need a muzzle break yet. By the way i would love to keep business in Canada if i could find a good cheap barrel! Suggestions please, especially on the cheap actions it would save me a lot of work!

Thanks Steve
 
steveyb4342 said:
OK im going to try and answer this all at once. I realise that building an action is a daunting task, but how many guys can say they built their own actions? Also on top of that did i mention my family also has 3 engineers in it? So i have excess to 2 machinists and 3 engineers. But....RifleDude how cheap of an action could i pick up in .338? I would be game for that but the actions I've seen are usually about $1000 a block of 416 stainless steel from wholesale might run me $50 but i doubt it. I dont mind spending a more than that but it will be taking away from what i'd get for optics or barrel. The stock I will make custom for my body out of a carved honeycomb then 2 layers of carbon fiber. I have a trigger i can use. I dont need a muzzle break yet. By the way i would love to keep business in Canada if i could find a good cheap barrel! Suggestions please, especially on the cheap actions it would save me a lot of work!

Thanks Steve
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Steve:


At one time I set out to do the very same thing you want to do_Only I had planned to build a 1911 from scratch.I figured I could do it easy enough.I had a full set of original prints and acess to a fully equiped machine shop.Boy was I wrong!I managed to make most of the smaller parts,but when it came to building the frame and slide I was dead in the water.
You need to realize that these big companies who manufacture guns do so on a large scale basis,and have plenty of cash to invest in custom tooling,single purpose machines,unconventional heat treating equipment etc..
Not to mention the fact that most of these companies have their own foundries as well.
It takes more than a lathe and a mill to scratch build my friend.Check out the websites of some of the big companies and you will see.
 
Hey I am all for developing and building your own action. What a thrill and would be a great achievement. But you did say you were on a budget. Now I have no idea what tools you already have but I think the last time I looked at carbide cutters, they cost a few bucks and you will need a few.

The tools needed would cost more then a commercial action. Likely more then a custom action.

Also, the 338 Lapua is not cheap by any stretch of the imagination. Cases and bullets cost a ton of cash. Plinking is going to need a very big budget (yes, I know from experience). You are looking at $1 per bang if everything is purchased as cheaply as possible and you get your $3 brass to last a while.

If you desire a 338, the 338 RUM does the same thing and brass is 1/3 the cost.

If you really want a LR plinker/varminter/deer rifle, you will be hard pressed to do better then a 7RM with 162gr Amax or 180gr Bergers in a 30" barrel. Do the math in any ballistics program and you will see that wind drift is right there with the Lapua. Energy is irrelevant for plinking and inside 900yds, the 7RM will get it done if you can. Far enough?

I would strongly suggest you look at a Savage ready to go like a 112BVSS or if you want to do a bunch of work, start with a Stevens and go from there. You can end up with a true tack driver and still have money left over to shoot it.

Check out my link below to see what I mean. Learn the basics of threading and chambering. Build a block or two. Drill some holes, whatever. I know a few very good and experienced machinists that have tools up the ying yang. They look at what is required to build an action and go "that's tough".

Give yourself some time to build up your machining skills then the world is your oyster. Miss threading a barrel is not the end of the world. Oops on an action can be a bit more 'painful'.

Good luck with your endeavor.

Jerry
 
Yes im realising the machining equipment is going to cost, i have to buy my own cutters. Also I would love to just be able to pick up and old action and maybe work on it a bit but like i said most of the ones ive seen they want a pretty hefty amount of coin for. Yes unfortuneatly i do have my heart set on a .338, although i would settle on a RUM. What are the main differences between RUM and Lapua? If anyone could throw out some quotes on a action that would be great! Even if its used. Maybe someone out there would like to help get a young person in the sport and has an action theyd like to give me a deal on? ...... or a barrel or optics for that matter lol. I will try and do some research on the 112BVSS and the Stevens in the meantime.

Thanks! Steve
 
The de Haas book on bolt actions is useful. Even better is the 2 volume set by S. Otteson on bolt action design. It has serious analyses of many existing designs. Keep in mind that if you do make an action, it will be containing perhaps 60 000 psi of pressure, inches from your face. Competent design, manufacture, correct alloys and heat treatment are essential.
 
steveyb4342 said:
I have decided that I would like to build a "precision" rifle in .338 lapua. It will be used for long range target shooting and as a secondary function possibly white tail deer, coyote, black bear and moose. Because funds are tight.... and because I ike to build and work on things I plan on doing most if not all the work myself.
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I'll get right to the point here. A precision rifle is not built on the cheap, otherwise they would sell for cheap, and everyone would have one.

I have a few years experience in machine tool work, some more as a hobby gunsmith, and more than a little interest in the design and manufacture technology involved.

You sir, have no idea how far over your head you are trying to get yourself.

The cost of the tooling (cutters) that you will need to do a project like this is going to be near the price of a decent hunting rifle.

Unless the guys you know are stocked with REALLY nice machine shops, I'd put the chances of a project like that seeing a round fired out of it at somwhere near zero. Less so if they have not got some experience building firearms parts and making them work together safely.

Most good Gunsmiths have a decent selection of tools on hand, as well as the experience to use them, and still would not tackle building an action.

Buy your parts, assemble (or have someone that knows what they are doing do it), and have a safe and hopefully accurate rifle for maybe a bit less or about the same as a off the shelf one would cost (but I doubt it, more like WAY more than buying one, gunsmiths gotta eat too).

Save your money and buy a nice, far shooting, accurate rifle.

And do a little research on the caliber choice. Poor pick. Good for what it can do, but it's probably about the most expensive round you could have picked to shoot, and increases all the other costs (brass, chamber reamer, powder, etc) to shoot it, as well as being quite capable of kicking the crap out of you when you do.

The De Haas vault lock design is probably the best bet. Ugly though.

Think long about what happens to your face when a badly heat treated action explodes, too.

Trev
 
There's a sporter P-17 on the EE (http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121317) that'd be a fine candidate for a new barrel (.338) and some bolt facing work to make it handle the .338 RUM. It's a magnum-length action.

OR, you could save your shekels and get a Rem 700 SPS in .300 RUM, and just put a new barrel on it for the .338 RUM. There's very little difference in the real world between it and the .338 Lapua, except that it's roughly a quarter of the price for brass.
 
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