Building a reloading bench; where to spend

[bearhunter]

Just my perspective - if you intend to duplicate modern ammo - that is probably not going to happen - the commercial guys do not use the canister grade powders that you will get - they will blend up a "lot" to their specs - is probable that the primers, brass and bullets that you use may not be the same as they use. When I started, it was relatively easy to do better, accuracy wise, than factory rounds - but now-a-days, it can be a real challenge to just be "as good as" they are. Having said that, I recently acquired a Tikka T3X in 223 Rem that the previous owner had really good luck with factory Hornady Match rounds. So I bought 500 of those Match 75 gr. BTHP Hornady bullets to see if I could make some "as good as" Hornady can - that is yet to be seen - I have not loaded for that rifle yet.

I have the same rifle, and it's very easy to develop loads for it that duplicate, and better, the performance of any factory match ammo.

You're right, some of the premium and match ammo available off the shelf, for the reasons you describe, are very hard to duplicate or beat.

I have a set of old Bonanza Bench Rest dies for the 223, as well as the 6.5x55, and Palma Match 7.62x51. They're some of the best I've used, and ammo is always very straight, with less than .003 run out.

Often, hand loaders don't check the run out on their finished ammo.

The last box of match ammo I picked up was very straight. It was all under .003. That's incredible for factory quality control.

 

[bearhunter]

OP - about your expectations - I have a couple rifles that will put 3 holes within one inch of each other at 100 yards off sandbags - my 338 Win Mag (a Winchester Model 70) will do that, and so will my 9.3x62 (a Husqvarna - probably a Model 649 on an FN Mauser 98 action). But I never could do so with my 7x57 (a Ruger #1) - best from that one that I ever got was about 1.25 inch for 5 shots at 100 yards - despite multiple load combinations attempted. I have taken many dozen deer with the Ruger and have yet to get anything with the 9.3x62. I did get two elk with the 338 Win Mag.

Ruger No1 rifles are notorious for being fussy. I have a custom 338-06 left in my safe. First shot at 100yds is always one inch low from the rest of the group. After the first shot it easily manages sub 1.25 inch groups with the loads tailored for that rifle.

It took a lot of work to get it to shoot predictably. D&Ting the fore end tang for a harmonic tensioning screw, glass bedding the butt stock to receiver tangs, and fore end tang, making sure the fore end didn't contact the receiver, swapping out the original Wilson barrel, etc.

 

[hickstick_10]

The bench itself, unless you're doing some serious case forming or swaging is secondary.

So far this old corner desk has been my favourite bench so far.

Case turners and trimmers dont hold a candle to a unimat lathe my mom found in the neighbour's trash.

Presses....co axes are nice but most of your accuracy will come from trigger time, save the money for powder, primers and days off at the range.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

I’ve had an RCBS rockchucker for decades and have reloaded thousands of rounds per year with it. Is it the fanciest? No. Does it make quality ammo? Absolutely.

Rockchucker is def the way to go.

I kinda feel that resizing dies, powder charge, and bullet seating are, generally, higher priority variables than the press itself (to a point!). I say this as a novice reloader.

And you would be correct. A top of the line press with cheap dies is not the way to go. A Rockchucker with decent Redding Dies is most definitely the way to go.

 

[slinkylegs]

As much as I would love a permanent, rock solid bench, I don't have that luxery right now. A friend build me a top for a B&D Workmate bench, and that's what I use. Handy in the sense that I can fold it and store it away, or bring it to the range with me to do load development. It works, and that is what matters to me right now.

With regards to equipment, I agree with the folks that say you don't need the most expensive press. I bought a RCBS Rock Chucker (along with other goodies) from an estate sale about 13 years ago, and it's been perfectly useable. I use an old beam scale (Lyman M5), but if I loaded more I'd get an electric thrower/scale.

 

[sonichanxiao]

I would like them equivalent/better than PPU/Privi Match Rifle, 75gr 223. I have quite a bit of FH Munition house brand, and at 250 yards it isn't bad, but tend to get quite a few flyers. The PPU groups very predictably with virtually no fliers, MOA or better, which is my goal. Consumption rate: I go to the range once a week, maybe twice depending on what the family wants to do, and go through 50-75 rounds per session. If my wife and daughter join me with their 223s, 100-120 per session.

I believe all the reloading press would be able to achieve that Sub-MOA accuracy if you do each step correctly. But if you have the budget, a Dillion 750 would save you a lot of time and potential shoulder pain after years while maintaining the same accuracy as single press.
On top of that an accurate powder throw, autotrickler is nice to have, but RCBS ChargeMaster Lite would do the job.
If you are not shooting premium brass like Lapua, annealer is something you don't have to invest.

Personally I would get
RCBS Rock Chucker press/Dillion XL750
RCBS ChargeMaster Lite
Redding Type S-Match Bushing Full Die Set with the size of bushing for your calibers
21st Century expanding mandrels for your caliber with expanding die
Lyman Case Prep Xpress for chamfer/debur/primer pocket uniform and neck brushing
Frankford Arsenal hand priming tool
Frankford Arsenal wet tumbler(large), no need to get the stainless steel pin, lemon shin with dishwash soap is enough
Frankford Arsenal brass dryer or any food dryer does the same job
A good caliper like from mahr or mitutoyo
Hornady brass headspace comparator and bullet comparator or ShortActionCustom ones if you want to spend that much money

 

[boxhitch]

A friend build me a top for a B&D Workmate bench, and that's what I use. Handy in the sense that I can fold it and store it away, or bring it to the range with me to do load development. It works,

A friend uses a Workmate, he strengthened his by adding a vertical leg under the press direct to the floor, first was a 4x4 then went light and uses a length of 4" abs pipe iirc

 

[slinkylegs]

A friend uses a Workmate, he strengthened his by adding a vertical leg under the press direct to the floor, first was a 4x4 then went light and uses a length of 4" abs pipe iirc

I reinforced the area right underneath with a couple of 2x4's, but no vertical leg... Although that a good idea. I have only done smaller calibers so far, so there hasn't been a need for extra oomph yet

 

[Duck_Hunter]

I’m interested to hear about your diy annealer. I built one using parts off amazon and am wondering what route you are taking for yours?
I built mine based off a post on snipershide but find the time it takes to anneal a .308 case higher than usual ~14 seconds and I’ve played around with coil designs

 

[mephisto002]

I reinforced the area right underneath with a couple of 2x4's, but no vertical leg... Although that a good idea. I have only done smaller calibers so far, so there hasn't been a need for extra oomph yet

A friend uses a Workmate, he strengthened his by adding a vertical leg under the press direct to the floor, first was a 4x4 then went light and uses a length of 4" abs pipe iirc

Since 20 years I use this kitchen side table from Ikea, very sturdy with the RCBS Rock Chucker press,
mobile and easy to store away.

https://www.ikea.com/ca/en/p/bekvaem-kitchen-cart-beech-70240351/

 

[ThisIsMyBoomstick]

I’m interested to hear about your diy annealer. I built one using parts off amazon and am wondering what route you are taking for yours?
I built mine based off a post on snipershide but find the time it takes to anneal a .308 case higher than usual ~14 seconds and I’ve played around with coil designs

This is the one I'm building: DIY Induction Annealer.

I have a 3D printer that I use for making jigs and templates.

 

[boxhitch]

TFS , but details are missing. Do you have a list of parts used? and pics of what 3d components are needed?

 

[ThisIsMyBoomstick]

TFS , but details are missing. Do you have a list of parts used? and pics of what 3d components are needed?

Part list can be accessed via the URL : https://www.mgnz-makes.com/parts-list?currency=EUR

The dropdown menu under Cartridge Case Annealer has more details.

 

[DinduNuffin]

I have this system and really like it.

 

[Sniffer]

Evening. I've started assembling my equipment, so far I have a few good calipers (Tesa, Mitutoyo) and a full set of micrometers (Mitutoyo), a 5lbs tumbler and an annealer (almost - building a induction annealer, waiting on parts)

Calibers : 223/556 and 6.5x55, only hunting paper right now, 250+ yards.

I've been saving up my discretionary funds, and have a fair chunk saved up and am thinking I should put that towards a press. Is the press what you really want to use the saying "buy once, cry once" on? I ask because I came across the German Prazipress (Turban CNC) and its apparently the bees knees of reloading presses. It would be ~$1500-$1600 CAD to my door. I realize its a subjective question, but is it a good value proposition? Trying to rationalize it to myself, I decided that I would have no problem throwing that amount of money at a rifle on the used market, but I would still have to feed it --- so why not spend the same on press that I could use to feed all my rifles? I think there is a some gun owner logic in there that makes sense.

Or, just get a Forster Co-ax or something along those lines and reinvest the savings into a case turner + trimmer, mandrels, dies, scale, powder trickler, ect ...

Thank you.

My vote goes to the Forester Co-Ax (I did)

Everyone should own a single stage press and I would argue learn on one (although I started on a progressive). The ease with which you can consistently swap dies is the main reason I would go Co-Ax but the built in priming station is worth having too.

I don't think I have ever had a scenario where the Co-Ax fell short for what I required (maybe some bigger calibers - I dunno?) and it seems solid and well made. I fully it expect it to be the last press I ever need.

 

[Sniffer]

I have a firm belief that reloading turns into a entirely different sub-genre of the firearms hobby. My father is totally into it. And spends more time reloading and researching than shooting, it becomes a science, looking for the best powders, total gr and weight. Its fascinating to watch.

Cheers and good luck

Agreed.

Reloading becomes a hobby in its own right.

If you dont start with some degree of OCD it will develop once you get going

 

[Sniffer]

I paid $1451 cad shipped.


If I had $1500-1600 to spend and I was starting out I’d look at a rock chucker, rcbs matchmaster trimmer and a Lyman gen 3 powder thrower. It might be a bit out of your budget but one can wait. Assuming you have most of the other stuff you need to reload.

The autotrickler is really nice but it probably won’t pay off unless you have a match rifle and you’re loading lots of bullets for it. I think my autotrickler throws powder for a creedmoor case in about 20 seconds(if I remember correctly) and the Lyman is probably 30-40 seconds but I haven’t used that in a long time.

And I hate trimming brass. The matchmaster will do 100 pieces trimmed and chamfered in 12 minutes.

Less time reloading=more time shooting

I believe the Autotrickler, while high end (which can be a law of diminishing returns) is worth it.

To throw powder to the kernel is impressive and has to make a difference on target (distance dependant to some degree). If (all other things being equal of course) your ammo has very consistent speeds round to round (from the exact same amount of powder round to round) then that variable is eliminated.

There are many ways to achieve this but the Autotrickler is the fastest / easiest I feel and works well.

As to how fast it operates I find it is powder dependant. I have some powders where it is lightning fast and others where it is quite a bit slower.

One side note, when you have equipment that is accurate to the degree this is you need to ensure it cannot be influenced by other factors - even the air movement generated from moving around near it while operating will cause squirrelly things to happen. Garbage in = garbage out.

 

[Sniffer]

Don't forget a rock-solid bench that doesn't budge as you bring the press handle down on your rounds.

(Keeping the bullet supply on bench shelves helps weight it down!)

Good tip, I do the same.

 

[bearhunter]

As much as I would love a permanent, rock solid bench, I don't have that luxery right now. A friend build me a top for a B&D Workmate bench, and that's what I use. Handy in the sense that I can fold it and store it away, or bring it to the range with me to do load development. It works, and that is what matters to me right now.

With regards to equipment, I agree with the folks that say you don't need the most expensive press. I bought a RCBS Rock Chucker (along with other goodies) from an estate sale about 13 years ago, and it's been perfectly useable. I use an old beam scale (Lyman M5), but if I loaded more I'd get an electric thrower/scale.

You would likely be disappointed with an electric thrower/scale, they're just too SLOW.

A good manual dispenser, an electric scale, and a powder trickler are much faster, and maybe a bit more accurate.

I've had both RCBS and Hornady electric dispensers/scales, sold both of them.

Just IMHO, of course

 

[Sniffer]

I disagree with using bushing neck-sizers, the logic doesn't make sense imo
but i'm not studied up on precision so what do i know

I did read up a ton before deciding which way to go (bushing or non bushing) and while each has pros and cons the consensus was that bushing dies may exacerbate the generation of a donut at the base of the neck*.

It is for this reason I went with a full length sizing die.

Of course if your chamber size is perfect a donut wont matter anyways as the bullet will be seated just above it but if not then it can be an issue

*I have never used bushing dies or had donut issues and I am not looking to get into a "which is better" argument. To each their own.