Building an 11.5" AR, What muzzle device would YOU put on?

beltfed said:
An A2 does well with a 20" barrel and for that role it fills the bill nicely. They progressively degrade in both their ability to act as a flash suppressor and a compensator the shorter the barrel gets.
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I have to ask why the A2 works less well on a short barrel as compared to a 20" barrel? Barrel length issues should be exactly the same for all muzzle devices.


Mark
 
mmattockx said:
I have to ask why the A2 works less well on a short barrel as compared to a 20" barrel? Barrel length issues should be exactly the same for all muzzle devices.


Mark
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Conceivably one could make the argument that there's enough unburnt powder left after ignition in a short barrel that the A2 would be overwhelmed...however that's true of the overwhelming majority of muzzle devices recommended in this thread.

Anyone who doesn't think the A2 will "work" on an 11.5 either hasn't used a lot of muzzle devices, or has a very different idea of what constitutes "working" than I do. I expect an A2 to minimize flash and mitigate some of the very small amount of muzzle rise a properly employed AR generates...A2s do that very effectively at 11.5". Vortexes are about the only common muzzle device that is significantly more effective at suppressing the flash of an AR than the A2, and they are as good as I've seen it get.

As I've often commented in the past, when I read a fairly large thread on M4C in which a large number of professional shooters (of other people, I mean, not competition shooters) were polled on their muzzle device preferences, the overwhelming majority preferred A2s, and the exceptions were almost exclusively people who had specific requirements for mounting suppressors.

Muzzle devices are an instance in which you really do not get what you pay for. There are reasons to put various oddball attachments on the end of your gun but I would say about 98% of people would be better served with a properly tuned AR and an A2 than whatever they bought.
 
mmattockx said:
I have to ask why the A2 works less well on a short barrel as compared to a 20" barrel? Barrel length issues should be exactly the same for all muzzle devices.
Mark
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Generally with a longer barrel the products of combustion will have a greater time to combust (and combust completely), cool, and then upon exiting the barrel the flash suppressor will have an easier time of disrupting those gasses than a shorter version of that same barrel - all things being equal.
The difference in the end of the muzzle in relation to the gas block would also affect how well the flash suppressor can cope with the escaping gasses.


misanthropist said:
Anyone who doesn't think the A2 will "work" on an 11.5 either hasn't used a lot of muzzle devices, or has a very different idea of what constitutes "working" than I do. I expect an A2 to minimize flash and mitigate some of the very small amount of muzzle rise a properly employed AR generates...A2s do that very effectively at 11.5". Vortexes are about the only common muzzle device that is significantly more effective at suppressing the flash of an AR than the A2, and they are as good as I've seen it get.

As I've often commented in the past, when I read a fairly large thread on M4C in which a large number of professional shooters (of other people, I mean, not competition shooters) were polled on their muzzle device preferences, the overwhelming majority preferred A2s, and the exceptions were almost exclusively people who had specific requirements for mounting suppressors.
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The A2 is a decent all-round flash suppressor - that is it's primary (and arguably only) function. That is what I'd expect from it, nothing less and nothing more.
On an 11.5" AR barrel it sucks at this function, but don't blame the device - it is being employed for something it was never designed to do (working on a short barrel). There are better devices for an 11.5" AR barrel if that is what one wants to use.

It may be 'good enough' for some who see those attributes of flash suppression far out-weigh the requirements of mitigating recoil or muzzle rise, as would most people that employ firearms for their primary purpose - but let's not sidetrack or merge that discussion into this one - they are clearly different animals.

Let's also not pretend for a second the A2 is a good compensator.
Sure it is better than a target crowned muzzle, but as a compensator it generally sucks. One only needs to send a couple bursts of full auto down range to realize that. But then again I didn't read about it on M4c....
 
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beltfed said:
Generally with a longer barrel the products of combustion will have a greater time to combust (and combust completely), cool, and then upon exiting the barrel the flash suppressor will have an easier time of disrupting those gasses than a shorter version of that same barrel - all things being equal.
The difference in the end of the muzzle in relation to the gas block would also affect how well the flash suppressor can cope with the escaping gasses.






The A2 is a decent all-round flash suppressor - that is it's primary (and arguably only) function. That is what I'd expect from it, nothing less and nothing more.
On an 11.5" AR barrel it sucks at this function, but don't blame the device - it is being employed for something it was never designed to do (working on a short barrel). There are better devices for an 11.5" AR barrel if that is what one wants to use.

It may be 'good enough' for some who see those attributes of flash suppression far out-weigh the requirements of mitigating recoil or muzzle rise, as would most people that employ firearms for their primary purpose - but let's not sidetrack or merge that discussion into this one - they are clearly different animals.

Let's also not pretend for a second the A2 is a good compensator.
Sure it is better than a target crowned muzzle, but as a compensator it generally sucks. One only needs to send a couple bursts of full auto down range to realize that. But then again I didn't read about it on M4c....
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It's definitely not a great compensator...but then the AR really does not need much in the way of compensation.
 
I am still of the opinion that the A2 is more than adequate on a short barrelled AR. Sure, it doesn’t do any magic but I am not sure what we are expecting out of it on the one way ranges of Canada.
 
Mirk said:
I am still of the opinion that the A2 is more than adequate on a short barrelled AR. Sure, it doesn’t do any magic but I am not sure what we are expecting out of it on the one way ranges of Canada.
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I've replaced both my A2s on 11.5" and 10.3" AR's because of excessive muzzle flash, slapped on a phantom flash hider and no more flash issues in dusk lighting, during a bright day it doesn't matter, but once you get lower light, the flash blinds you
 
volitaire said:
I've replaced both my A2s on 11.5" and 10.3" AR's because of excessive muzzle flash, slapped on a phantom flash hider and no more flash issues in dusk lighting, during a bright day it doesn't matter, but once you get lower light, the flash blinds you
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Hmmm....I'm not blind, and I used a 10.5" with an A2 at my last low light course.

This thread is full of misinformation and false statements without research or actual testing.
 
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Clobbersauras said:
Hmmm....I'm not blind, and I used a 10.5" with an A2 at my last low light course.

This thread is full of misinformation and false statements without research or actual testing.
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To be fair ammo can make a difference. If I use PPU ammo (I believe that’s what it was) I get very little flash, if I use Black Box AE223 it is kinda ridiculous.

Anyhow, I usually defer to your expertise in regards to muzzle devices as you appear to have done more testing than anyone else here.
 
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Clobbersauras said:
Hmmm....I'm not blind, and I used a 10.5" with an A2 at my last low light course.

This thread is full of misinformation and false statements without research or actual testing.
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In my testing with AE223(Black box) and Norinco 556 (500 ish before i switched out flash hiders) I got flashes which annoyed me in my RDS with the stock A2, I never had this issue with my 16" running A2. Once I swapped in the YHM phantom I never noticed any flash again using the same ammo. But from what I hear the AE likes to shoot out fireballs, maybe you use different ammo, then again with all your experience I'm sure you accounted for that before indicating in a roundabout way i'm full of misinformation and false statements.
 
volitaire said:
In my testing with AE223(Black box) and Norinco 556 (500 ish before i switched out flash hiders) I got flashes which annoyed me in my RDS with the stock A2, I never had this issue with my 16" running A2. Once I swapped in the YHM phantom I never noticed any flash again using the same ammo. But from what I hear the AE likes to shoot out fireballs, maybe you use different ammo, then again with all your experience I'm sure you accounted for that before indicating in a roundabout way i'm full of misinformation and false statements.
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My comments weren't directed specifically at you. If the phantom makes you shoot better, go for it.

As info, my primary supply of ammo has been AE "tactical". I've shot thousands of rounds of it through my rifle.
 
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