Building from scratch?

[Trgsmith]

Hey all,

Fairly new to the site, i have recently completed the crfsc, and waiting to receive my licence,

I've done a bit of browsing around the site and haven't found much info on building firearms.

a simple Google search will bring up a cad file for a ar-15 lower with mil spec precision. On another note with access to a decent 3d printer one could pump out at least one lower and one upper a day, that file also available with a simple search. What's the legality process after one has "made" a firearm? From American ar magazines I have read they don't have to register a manufactured firearm until transfer of ownership, at that point it must undergo a examination..

Anyone else pondering a build from the ground up?

Of course a ar would be a fun build but files can also be found for many of styles of firearms..

 

[Zahal.org]

You'll have to get your lower verified and registered.

But really: those 3d printers aren't goign to give you much right now unless you've got access to a really good one. Brittle polymer and the occasional weird shape.

You'd be better to buy an aluminum 80% lower and mill it out yourself.

Or: because you are new, consider a start just buying parts and assembling an AR-15. That can be an adventure in and of itself!

Building a lower isn't that much fun. But building a rifle can be very rewarding.

 

[Trinimon]

Most guys here when they say "build from scratch" they really mean assemble from scratch. You're talking about literally building from ground zero as in milling your own receivers?

If you're new to firearms and AR for that matter, I'd recommend either buying an already asselbled rifle like one of the great deals out there right now, do some basic customizing to become familiar with it. Then do an assemble from scratch build if you feel comfortable and have the tools to do so.

Well unless you already have the knowledge/experience and have access to a milling machine and CAD drawings to mill your own stuff then that's beyond my realm. Good luck.

 

[cr5]

If you want to "build" one for yourself then I say go for it and once the lower is complete have a firearms verifier check it over and register it with the CFO.
If you're thinking of doing this to make money then you'll be disappointed, if you can only put out one lower and upper a day and considering how cheap we can buy a lower and upper for these days from established manufacturers then you're looking at a steep uphill battle with little return.
If you think $100 a day is a good income after all that work then give it a shot but it will be hard to sell those since most guys are not fans of polymer rifles that were designed originally to be forged aluminum. The AR is one of those rifles, manufacturers who have tried to make them in polymers have not been very successful.
Simply taking someone else's files from google and plugging it into a 3D printer isn't going to get you the results you're looking for.
You would be better off making firearms accessories but then you need to watch for patent infringement.
What types of plastics do you have access to? Most of the stuff readily available won't be good for much beyond the airsoft crowd.

 

[dink27]

If you have a good/big 3D printer and some extreme knowledge of polymer why not go for it. You will have to register it, this isn't the US. The RCMP has specifics for home built guns, you can do it, its legal, but there is a process. And since the AR15 is restricted by name you must register it of face the consequences.
Hell, even if you are a reasonably competent machinist you could mill an receiver out of aluminum stock. Again if you got the tools and talent give 'er.
More likely you'll want to assemble from parts. Which is still a tone of fun and a good learning experience. As soon as you buy the lower of course its registered with the RCMP and you need to update the registration when it's complete.
If you make one, we'll want pics!

DINK

 

[Stevebot-7]

I recommend looking around for a thread from last year, about the "Grizzly" I think it was called, a single shot .22 designed and printed by a guy on here.

The issue with it is that on the low end, <$1000, you're dealing with low quality materials like ABS plastic and poor print quality and repeatability. You generally end up with a very "pixelated" product because of the print resolution and precision of movement for the nozzle.

On the higher end, >$1000, you have the capability of printing with higher materials, such as by laser sintering, and you usually have much more precision available.

You might recall the company last year that "printed" a metal 1911 pistol. Even that required quite a bit of finishing work to polish and smooth out the jagged "pixelation" left by the printing process.

So, let's just say a $10,000 investment for the printer and raw materials, and a proper foundation and workshop for it. Now suppose you do start printing lowers, can you compete with the <$150 market? That's where your lowers will be, bottom of the barrel, unproven and untested and unknown. Suppose your cost per lower is $75 to pay for the materials and labour to inspect and finish it. You sell for $150, that's $75 profit. How much does it cost to pay utilities for your workshop? How much money do you want going in your pocket?

It's hard to adopt a new technology and make money on the bottom of the market. To pay for it, you'd have to cater to a higher end market, in which case competition gets a lot fiercer and consumers are a lot more demanding. Who will pick a new and unproven printed lower over a Daniel Defense? There will be a few curious buyers, but will that be enough to buy food?


At this moment, the real advantage would be niche market custom buyers. The kind of people who are willing to pay a bit more for something special. I have a custom engraved lower from Motiuk Manufacturing, it's great, nobody else has one like it probably in all the world.


The technology certainly has tremendous potential, and it may eventually reach the point where you press the button for "AR-15, black." and out pops a fully functional and reliable gun, but we aren't there yet.

A precise CAD file doesn't mean much unless your printer can back it up. There's a saying, "Measure with a micrometer, cut with a chainsaw." If your printer can only hold a resolution of 0.855, that means your perfect 4.150 specification goes right out the window.

Legally, you would have to submit the firearm for verification and registration, a process that can take years. During that time, you are out whatever capital you invested in the project, which might be substantial because the boys in the lab may very well find out that a tap of a hammer makes your design "easily converted to full auto".

That is a huge part of why the Canadian firearms industry has been so severely hurt. The looming spectre of prohibition makes new designs a very, very risky investment. New guns cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to design, test, assemble, and inspect, and that's all before the firearms lab gets a hold of it.

 

[Trgsmith]

Awesome!
Thanks for the info everyone.
I will be purchasing a AR platform firearm(once I receive my licence) at that point I plan on taking it apart cleaning and generally become familiar with the firearm. At that point I will probably try my hand at ordering all the components and "assemble" a ar from scratch. Only then do I beleive I would try building one from "scratch".
Does anyone have first hand experience getting firearms that were manufactured verified?
As far as non restricted platforms, would they also need verification?

 

[cr5]

Awesome!
Thanks for the info everyone.
I will be purchasing a AR platform firearm(once I receive my licence) at that point I plan on taking it apart cleaning and generally become familiar with the firearm. At that point I will probably try my hand at ordering all the components and "assemble" a ar from scratch. Only then do I beleive I would try building one from "scratch".
Does anyone have first hand experience getting firearms that were manufactured verified?
As far as non restricted platforms, would they also need verification?

I had my Bushmaster ACR verified and classified as non restricted after installing a non restricted length barrel. Having it verified was easy, then I waited a few weeks for the paperwork to go through the CFO.
It isn't difficult but it definitely isn't an overnight thing.

 

[Gotrek]

I assembled my own AR from others left over parts. The barrel was the most expensive thing but my build was about 400$ I don't think you can do much cheaper then that Bonus it functions ok but is extremely accurate

Functions ok means I get one light primer strike every 300 rounds ish... Haven't bothers to figure out why since it doesn't really impact my use of it.

 

[D_]

I build all of my rifles. Wouldnt do it any other way. I don't go from scratch like churning out a reciever though.

 

[Trgsmith]

I know this is an old thread but I thought I'd update it with a picture of my newly completed lower receiver. I've started another thread, (which can be removed locked if the mods see fit?) and then found this. Not trying to spam but for my own good think I'll keep it all together
Anyway I went with a NEA lower receiver,
Spikes tactical parts kit, with the kns mon-rotating pins.
Mil-spec buffer tube, Magpull MOE stock
ATRS buffer

Assembly was about an hour, I felt very confident with the whole process. Can't wait to build a upper.

I guess for now I'll keep planning on a "from scratch" build.


Cheers
Travis

And btw we have concluded in the other thread the castle nut AND end plate are still MIA

 

[dogzilla]

This is our build from scratch. AR 10's

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[Trgsmith]

Very Cool! One day Ill be taking that challenge on

 

[dogzilla]

It isn't worth it. At the time AR10 lowers were unobtainable. The biggest problem is the magwell They are usually broached or edm'd. You need sharp corners, so you need a 1/8 endmill about 3" long (try getting that to cut straight). We have an edm machine so it cost nothing, otherwise edm would cost $100 all by itself. Add about $70/unit for a block of 7075 aluminum and black anodising has a minimum charge (usually about $130, meaning 1 costs $130, and 3 cost $130. You also need to make the fixtures. The first operation can be done in a vice, but you need a nesting fixture to do the flip side to get everything to line up. You also need a vertical fixture to cut the magwell in the proper position. Oh yeah, you also need a buffer tube tap. Best to work some overtime and just buy a lower @ about $100 for an ar15

 

[Armedsask]

Who needs a buffer tube tap? Thread mill that sucker.

I milled my buffer threads with a lathe threading bar I slapped into a milling chuck.

 

[Armedsask]

Double post

 

[Trgsmith]

When I was researching I found an article that used a lathe to thread the buffer.
There is more then One way to skin a cat,
I'm thinking I'll do a 80% first and then work away on a 0% build.