Bulky powder available for reduced 308 loads?

Threemorewishes

Threemorewishes

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I'm looking for a bulky powder to reload reduced loads for cast 165 grain 308 Winchester. The bullet alloy is unknown so I want to stay under 2000fps. I tried 36 grains of H4350 and it leaves about 3/8" of airspace in the case. I know this is not the end of the world but I prefer filling the case or even a tiny amount of powder compression.

308 win has approx 3.44cc of useable case volume and I want a reduce load to keep the round about 2000fps.

These are the three powders I have at hand for normal jacketed rounds.
One grain volume of;
varget = .07310 (3.44cc divided by 0.07310 = 47.05 grains to fill case = too fast and beyond max pressure)
bl-c2 = .06450 (3.44cc divided by 0.06450 = 53.33 grains to fill case = too fast and way beyond max pressure)
4350 = .07251 (3.44cc divided by 0.07251 = 47.44 grains to fill case = too fast and beyond max pressure)

What are people using that fills the case and keeps the speeds under 2000fps?

Thanks in advance for any input you may have.

Greg
 
+1 for Trail Boss. Nearly 100% fill. 1500 FPS for me from a 130gr in 308 Win so your 165 may be way slower. I’ve also had good accuracy from 5744 and Imr 4198 with lots of empty space. Depending on your accuracy requirement it may not be the end of the world.
 
Can you explain why you have a goal of filling the case? I don't understand the advantage. I often do the opposite, using a "fast" and easy to ignite powder for cast bullets that may only fill the case half full or so. The "easy to ignite" characteristic of powders like Unique allows me to get consistent ignition and low shot to shot variation without fillers. But perhaps I am missing something?
 
You want a reduced load, but want to avoid reduced loads of medium speed rifle powders for safety reasons: hangfires; Secondary Explosion Effect (SEE), etc.

The answer: use either much less of a much faster powder, or more of a much slower powder.

A full case of US869 would probably give you less than 2000 fps, while many pistol powders like Red Dot would work well under about 1800 fps.
 
Thanks for all the information.

I was under the impression that airspace in cartridges could lead to poor accuracy and possibly was dangerous for the reasons that Andy mentioned.

Also, the reloading manual I have has a bunch of warnings for reduced loads. These are the first reduced rifle loads I've made so I might be overly cautious.

Thanks again for all the information.

I now have an updated shopping list.
 
I've had good luck with both fast and slow for cartridge powder, but I've never had the absolute consistent results that a fuller case seems to give. I even talked to Andy about this one when experimenting a few years back with a 45-70 load and slow powder. Cast bullets are affected by higher pressures and can go wonky when kicked too hard. Play around enough and you start to see things.
 
I have use many powders for reduced cast bullet loads. Many pistol and shotgun powders work well. I have settled on IMR 4198, Unique and my current favourite is 2400. 2400 works well in every full size military cartridge I have tried it in. 2400 is not position sensitive and not drastically affected by temperature. It has given excellent results in every cartridge I have used it in. 16 grs in the 308 is a starting load for 150 to 180 cast. I haven’t needed to use anymore than 18 grs before I found the sweet spot for accuracy.
 
4759 was designed for reduced loads in rifle cases. I had a drum of it, but gave/sold it all away.

4756 and unique would be good powders for you to use.

Your reduced load of 4350 would be dirty and erratic.
 
I have not used 2400 but I believe it is similar to vihtavouri n110 also 15 grains to start, burns clean with decent pressure unlike the powders you propose to use
 
Over the past 30 years I have loaded thousands of rounds of mid caliber (30 and 8mm) military rounds.using IMR 4198. Good accuracy and no problems. Have tried 2400 in a couple. I found that Lyman starting loads gave me hang fires.in my O3A3. Going up to 21.0 grs corrected the problem. Have tried 5744 (Mike Venturino's favourite)but found it really dirty. Cast loads are a great way to enjoy military rifles!
 
Loads of great information! Thanks.

Got my brass sorted and prepped, bullets sized and lubed, press set up, but having trouble finding retailers with any of the suggested powders in stock.

Here's hoping that spring brings new powder shipments to all the Canadian resellers.
 
Threemorewishes said:
..............

What are people using that fills the case and keeps the speeds under 2000fps?

Greg
Click to expand...

With that strict criteria, only Trail Boss and something like US869 would fit the bill.

That said if you're willing to accept otherwise, today X-Reload shows LIL'Gun in stock, which would be a good cast bullet powder in the 308, albeit (at 18-20 grs) with a very low fill %.

P.S. also great in the 500 S&W. ;)
 
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I have loaded scads of lighter loads with cast in the mid caliber cartridges using 700X. Trail Boss is an excellent powder, using the 70% formula. Fast burning flake powder will give decent accuracy, provided the gun and shooter do their part. :p

I happen to have a lot of 700X, so that is what I've been using for years now.
 
IMR or H5010 would be good for what you are seeking. They are obsolete now,
but I am sure there is some kicking around, not being used. I have 6 lbs myself.
Similar burn rate to US869, and quite bulky. Dave.
 
Andy said:
With that strict criteria, only Trail Boss and something like US869 would fit the bill.
That said if you're willing to accept otherwise, today X-Reload shows LIL'Gun in stock, which would be a good cast bullet powder in the 308, albeit (at 18-20 grs) with a very low fill %.
P.S. also great in the 500 S&W. ;)
Click to expand...

I have a can of Lil'Gun and will add it to the reload sampler. Thanks!

Sold the 500S&W. Had my fun and sent it on it's way.
 
Threemorewishes said:
I have a can of Lil'Gun and will add it to the reload sampler. Thanks!

Sold the 500S&W. Had my fun and sent it on it's way.
Click to expand...

I'm going to recant on that recommendation until I've tried it myself, which I almost always do when recommending a powder.

While it can operate well at very low pressures, I'm thinking it might not behave well with low load densities, and be unreliable - position sensitive, high SD, possible hangfires, etc. A filler could correct that, but I'm not a fan of them.
 
Andy said:
I'm going to recant on that recommendation until I've tried it myself, which I almost always do when recommending a powder.
While it can operate well at very low pressures, I'm thinking it might not behave well with low load densities, and be unreliable - position sensitive, high SD, possible hangfires, etc. A filler could correct that, but I'm not a fan of them.
Click to expand...

Noted. Thanks.

I've made a list of all the suggestions and have Trailboss at the top of that list. Now just need to find it.
 
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