bullet performance and hunter hell.

[elimsprint]

My buddy shot a huge whitey last year using a neck shot, 300 Win Mag @ 125yds. Deer went down like it got hit by a truck. My buddy then unloaded his rifle, leaving it at the truck, grabbed his pack and headed for his trophy. I'm walking behind him with my gun and as we approached his deer it jumped right up and took off into the trees. He's standing there speachless and I'm trying to get around him for a shot but can't get one before the deer disappears up the hill. We never did find it, no blood to speak of and way too many tracks to figure which were his. Second deer he's lost to the mighty neck shot in the last 3 years. I think he is slowly seeing the light, a deer with one in the boiler room may go a little ways but is hardly ever lost as there is usually a good blood trail and they don't go far. Neck shots are not even an option in my book. Just my .02
Kim

 

[Ruffed Grouse]

A question for the folks who have made neck shots (hopefully not too much of a thread hijack):

Under what conditions do they fail? Surely, if you hit spine in the neck, its all over. But what if you hit a spinal process (the bone that is part of the vertebrae that extends upwards) - presumably that causes a massive shock to the nervous system.

Are these cases of deer hopping back up only times where the bullet has happened to go through only soft tissue? I've never had experience with spine shots myself, but would expect that kind of hit would cause this 'he jumped back up after a minute' scenario?

RG

<><

 

[stubblejumper]

I always try and do a neck shot as not to chance any lose of meat, especially since the deer in my hunting area are not very big. Using a 308 and also a 30-06, I have yet to have one get up after a shot in the neck. Keep in mind my shots are always up close, around 50 yards.

Shoot enough deer in the neck,and sooner or later,one will get up and run off.Better a couple of ribs lost than to have a wounded deer run away suffering.

 

[smokin'stoegie]

It's basically the same shot placement as you would with an arrow. BEHIND the shoulder, it's going down.
Who eats ribs anyways?

 

[RoscoeT]

For the folks who are saying that you will loose no meat with a well placed rib shot.

I've seen where the bullet goes into the ribs. Hits both lungs. Fragments all to hell and goes into the shoulder AND even into lower parts like the loins.
Drops them like a stone but can mess them up despite great shooting.

There is no guarantee that if you body shot them. Even when you're side on and have a good shot that you'll not bugger meat up.

Unless you use a cannon and the bullet does not spend all it's energy in the animal. It just pops through and does not expand at all.

Not saying neck is better but just my comment.

 

[RoscoeT]

It's basically the same shot placement as you would with an arrow. BEHIND the shoulder, it's going down.
Who eats ribs anyways?

bullets do funny things when they strike stuff. Like break apart and travel in strange directions.

 

['Boo]

Shoot enough deer in the neck,and sooner or later,one will get up and run off.Better a couple of ribs lost than to have a wounded deer run away suffering.

100% correct.

These neck/head shots will work but eventually you are going to loose an animal. Also, the meat wastage on a neck shot is usually greater than one "through-the-ribs".

 

[stubblejumper]

I've seen where the bullet goes into the ribs. Hits both lungs. Fragments all to hell and goes into the shoulder AND even into lower parts like the loins.
Drops them like a stone but can mess them up despite great shooting.

So use a bullet like the TSX or TTSX or GMX or E-tip that doesn't fragment all to hell.

 

[Demonical]

No lecture from me, just a few observations:


#1) I never, worry about meat loss. To me, meat loss is tracking an animal for 2 days and not finding it.

#2) I'm glad you were able to recover the deer. Enjoy your beer!

#3) FWIW I don't like head or neck shots and it would always be the very last area I would think of choosing as my target. Too risky, as everybody else has pointed out.


The whitetail that I shot this year was drilled very neatly through ribs, going in and out, but it was a relatively large, slow bullet; 200gr from my 8x57. That thing is ~2645fps at the muzzle and out at 150 yard distance that it impacted the buck, it had dropped in velocity obviously. The ballicticians might know how fast it was travelling at impact... I don't know.

Anyway, it pancaked the animal, yet I have seldom seen such neat, clean bullet holes and almost zero trauma in the muscle, like ZERO meat loss.

 

[weldboss]

I have probably shot half a dozen deer with neck shots. I used a ballistic tip on those neckshots and they were all bang, flop. IMO when Purposely taking neckshots you should use a rapidly expanding bullet to ensure massive tissue damage and hemmoraging. The Winchester powerpoint which is a fine bullet, likely didn't expand or fragment enough in the neck, the way it did passing through the rib when you finally anchored her.

 

[Silverado]

So use a bullet like the TSX or TTSX or GMX or E-tip that doesn't fragment all to hell.

Or for an alternative, use a big slow cast lead bullet.

You know, like the kind that helped make the buffalo extinct LOL

Heavy and slow usually damages very little meat in my experience.

 

[Silverado]

#1) I never, worry about meat loss. To me, meat loss is tracking an animal for 2 days and not finding it.

This is a very good way to look at it!

The whitetail that I shot this year was drilled very neatly through ribs, going in and out, but it was a relatively large, slow bullet; 200gr from my 8x57. That thing is ~2645fps at the muzzle and out at 150 yard distance that it impacted the buck, it had dropped in velocity obviously. The ballicticians might know how fast it was travelling at impact... I don't know.

Anyway, it pancaked the animal, yet I have seldom seen such neat, clean bullet holes and almost zero trauma in the muscle, like ZERO meat loss.

Big, heavy, slow.

 

[stubblejumper]

Heavy and slow usually damages very little meat in my experience.

And in the case of longer distances and wind,it means plenty of wind drift as well.It is very easy to measure the yardage and allow for bullet drop,but judging wind is much more difficult,especially with gusting winds.I prefer to use a faster bullet with a higher BC that minimizes wind drift,allowing me to make a clean kill even if my wind speed estimation is a little off.

 

['Boo]

I have probably shot half a dozen deer with neck shots..

No offence but 6 deer is too small a statistical sample to construct an informed opinion with. Most of the people warning about the potential hazards of neck & head shots have spent many years in the field and have harvested several dozens - or more - animals. While all shots carry a degree of risk some are riskier than others.

With that said every individual must decide for himself what degree of risk is acceptable.

 

[stubblejumper]

No offence but 6 deer is too small a statistical sample to construct an informed opinion with. Most of the people warning about the potential hazards of neck & head shots have spent many years in the field and have harvested several dozens - or more - animals. While all shots carry a degree of risk some are riskier than others.

Exactly,you may have a dozen or more clean kills in a row,but that doesn't help much when you do have to track a deer that got up and ran away after being shot in the neck.I have hunted for over 35 years,and have been present for a couple of hundred kills or more(approx 100 of my own),and only three were neck shots that had to be tracked(none of the three were mine).If you kill enough game,the odds will catch up with you.

 

[bbobie]

ttt

not a good way to kill any thing ,1 shot threw the shoulder blades and you would have had her right at the truck.There isnt much meat on the fronts.i could go on ,but i will stop here.

 

[beefman]

This was the 1st year I had ever shot a deer in the neck.

It will be my last year I ever shoot a deer in the neck.

At 28 yards, I missed the spine (barely) but must have created a big enough shock wave to paralyze it (dropped on the spot).
Only the head, and neck forward of the shot was able to move. It required a shot to the chest to finish it.

Back to heart/lung shots for me, 100% of the time.

 

[DVXDUDE]

i've shot 2 deer in the neck. Both times i was lucky and severed the windpipe. My dad hit a big buck in the neck with a 12g slug at about 50 yards. Buck dropped and was kicking but finally made it back to his feet and took off. Followed blood for 300 yards then the buck crossed the road and we never seen blood again. That was two years ago and we were stumped on how that buck made it away. No more neck shots for me.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

For the folks who are saying that you will loose no meat with a well placed rib shot.

I've seen where the bullet goes into the ribs. Hits both lungs. Fragments all to hell and goes into the shoulder AND even into lower parts like the loins.
Drops them like a stone but can mess them up despite great shooting.

There is no guarantee that if you body shot them. Even when you're side on and have a good shot that you'll not bugger meat up.

Unless you use a cannon and the bullet does not spend all it's energy in the animal. It just pops through and does not expand at all.

Not saying neck is better but just my comment.

I agree with you about no guarantee of less meat damage on a body shot, but that can play both ways.
I shot a cow moose several years ago in the neck, it was a "perfect" shot. Shattered the spine she hit the ground dead. I was thrilled, nice young cow, NO meat damage, I thought.
When we started skin her out I noticed ALOT of hemoraging along the back straps. I happened to be hunting with a buddy who is an ER doctor, he figured that the hydrostatic shockwave of a 250 gr bullet hitting dead center of the spine travelled along the spine and basically turned all the surronding tissue to jello. Needless to say loosing all of the best meat to damage was upsetting.
I have only experienced this once, but thought I would share it.

I typically shoot most "for meat" game at the juction of head and neck but with ALOT more gun than a 243. To date luck seems to have prevailed and nothing has ever gotten back up, but as others have stated in time I am sure 1 will.
That being said occasionally things occur that suprise us all. I braodside shot a muley doe a few years back with my 50BMG. Everyone knows "a 50 will kill anything dead on the spot", well I am here to say WRONG.
We found blood and lung tissue galore, but she took off on the run down a coulee. We did finally find her remains 2 days of searching later and nearly 3 miles from where the shot was taken, missing 2 ribs and 50% of her lungs.
It would seem that 3 miles for us bipeds is a long distance, but apparently not for a muley on a mission.

It is easy for everyone to judge and say that 1 shot placement is better than another, statisticly 1 is probably better to shoot for heart and lungs, but as I found out the only real guarantees seem to be hunting at Safeway.

 

[Eagleye]

It's not a fluke at all,that dead or fled crap is total B.S.
QUOTE]

How true!!! Neck and head shots are low percentage shots that should be avoided if at all possible. I have hunted for over 50 years, and have been treated to many a tracking job because someone chose the "dead or fled" shot and wounded an animal. Most were eventually recovered, but some were not, and that is always bad news. Regards, Eagleye.