Bullet Placement!

I don't think there are any "absolutes" in hunting, but woiuld not put money on a bad shot with a big caliber dropping an animal as opposed to a well placed shot with a smalller , less desirable caliber.
I shoot single shot rifles because I like them ( told everyone this many times) and that is the ONLY reason.
I have actually hunted with a semi once, but only used one shot that time.
I truly believe that before the bullet can do its job it has to get there accurately, so shot plaqcement is at the top of the list.
Expansion is second.
HOW it kills ( pass through , staying in with big expansion, etc) is secondary, as long as it kills quickly.
Cat
 
I always wandered why bowhunters speak of they close encounters as if they are not possible while rifle hunting....
I agree that with a bow, it is a must.. but it is very possible to do with a rifle too.
I also believe that few hunters have the cool blood to let the animal walk within 100 yards and not shoot, but it is possible. Needless to say, within 40 yds tha death would be most likely instantenous with any "good" caliber.
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It certainly is , I was sitting in a hot area 2 years ago and 2 does come along pretty quick, and went in behind me at 15 meters :eek: down wind, I was :confused: why they did not boot it out of there, then I saw the reason , a 9 point was hot on their trail, he come right in 10 yds , top lip curled right up, and licking his eyes:D . I was on the ground sitting on a stump , could have dumped him easy with the 38-55 win 94.:) But with one tag , and a monster in the area I let him be. Did not get a crack at the big one :rolleyes: .
 
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Levi Garrett said:
It certainly is , I was sitting in a hot area 2 years ago and 2 does come along pretty quick, and went in behind me at 15 meters :eek: down wind, I was :confused: why they did not boot it out of there, then I saw the reason , a 9 point was hot on their trail, he come right in 10 yds , top lip curled right up, and licking his eyes:D . I was on the ground sitting on a stump , could have dumped him easy with the 38-55 win 94.:) But with one tag , and a monster in the area I let him be. Did not get a crack at the big one :rolleyes: .
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Something not many people I know would have done. That speaks badly about the crowd I'm associated with.

Back in Europe hunting with FMJs are usual.
I have to disagree that the definition of a "perfect shot " should involve bullet expansion.
While a fragmenting bullet is nothing else but a qiuck-fix for a non-existent problem, I'll categorize the shots made with non-expanding ones to be a little more particular about placement and less about bullet performance.

Don't get me wrong, please. I'm not advocating using solids for non-african game. A controlled expension bullet will almost always outperform a solid.
A little different goes for military design FMJ. They tumble at high speed, making a mess not easy to describe, but this is not the place....

I've seen game shot with them and they didn't go too far.
Same country has a minimum one year aprentenship for hunters and so on... CNS shots were preffered, but I've known a few "heart shooters" that were rather profficient at it.
A heart shot animal will not travel far. Don't matter the bullet. 10-12 seconds worth of running max.

I have never personally used solids or FMJ on game. But I did experience failure of the bullet due to high speed impact. Bigredd, remember the story about the moose shot with the 150 SST in 308, that we never recovered?

In that case, shot placement was "perfect" but not in corelation with the bullet used. Wait some more or shoot for the neck/head? that is the question. I hope I'll know the answer when the time comes....:rolleyes:
 
eltorro said:
I have never personally used solids or FMJ on game. But I did experience failure of the bullet due to high speed impact. Bigredd, remember the story about the moose shot with the 150 SST in 308, that we never recovered?

In that case, shot placement was "perfect" but not in corelation with the bullet used. Wait some more or shoot for the neck/head? that is the question. I hope I'll know the answer when the time comes....
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Yeah I do remember that thread... and I agree that it is proof positive that bullet placement is only one part of the equation.
It is also indicative of the need for a comprehensive approach to hunting and shooting all game. Rifle type, bullet construction, velocity, bullet placement, practice, knowledge of anatomy and biology, and common sense are just a few of the aspects of a well rounded hunter.
I'm still learning, and I have learned as much from my failures as my successes. Reading about other hunters experiences on this site, especially their failures has helped me tremendously in my quest to become a better hunter!:cool:
 
BIGREDD said:
I'm still learning, and I have learned as much from my failures as my successes. Reading about other hunters experiences on this site, especially their failures has helped me tremendously in my quest to become a better hunter!:cool:
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My thoughts exactly. I've learned here more in a month than from all magazines I've ever read.
 
Iagree with all the above, but if your just hoping it doesn't matter what your shooting how many good rounds one little bit. go to the range if you want to hear the noise. Common sense is needed as much as the gun, caliber, premium ammo. Art
 
BIGREDD said:
I have seen the opposite results using tough bullets on light game... bullet passes through without expansion or with limited expansion. Animal shrugs what is seemingly a killing shot and runs away... maybe it is found maybe not.
My point and the recurring theme here is that you can place the bullet perfectly and still have a less than perfect result.:eek:
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A buck shrugged at me after I gave him a perfect head shot and kept walking in circle with no indication of being hit. So I hit him again right in the chest. He kept walking for another 10 sec and then bedded down.... I found the bullet holes right behind its ear afterwards. The first hit actually had killed him on the impact.:rolleyes:
 
rollingrock said:
A buck shrugged at me after I gave him a perfect head shot and kept walking in circle with no indication of being hit. The first hit actually had killed him on the impact.:rolleyes:
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Killed on impact but was still with no indication of being hit!?:confused: It must be one of those zombie deer. You need an AR-15 or some evil black rifle for those.:D
 
I read a lot about deer sized game running hundreds of yards after being hit.
WTF?
Now I've already revealed that I keep shooting until the deer drops, but, I just don't see those long trailing jobs. I am dealing with a hundred or so deer, that I've either personally shot, or dealt with directly.
Is it because you guys use premium bullets at longer range?
Or because I use standard bullets at close range?
Or both.
Maybe my deer just give up easier.
I find if I put a 30-30 170 grain standard or 45-70 350gr hp, or 308 165gr Interlock in the right spot, they just drop, within 50 feet or so.
I got a tree lounge video a while back, and all his deer stood right up on thier hind legs before they folded. Never seen that before either.
He didn't say what he was shooting, musta been some sorta lazer canon outfit.
 
I have shot primarily deer and elk and the many have been anchored with head or neck shots. Between the eyes, below the eye and through the ears, they dropped like a sack of hammers.
Of the animals I have shot behind the front shoulder only one has went close to 100 yds. the rest never went near that distance.
The vast majority of these animals have been shot at distances of 50 yds or less. My bullet of choice is Sierra Game King, by no means a premium bullet in some opinions but it sure does the job for me.
 
savagefan said:
A good friend of mine who hunts a lot and for many years with his trusty .270 has this to say about moose. "Don't quit shooting 'til they go down" He in turn was told this years earlier by his great uncle. They don't buy a whole lot of meat from Safeway.
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Hunting is, quite often, a Team endeavour.

We have a similar saying. Make sure the first shot is as lethal as possible. If not, "If you see brown, shoot 'till it's down."
 
All the talk of "shooting until it's down" goes hand in hand with "put the bullet in the right place", although it seems contridictory.

Think about it. We have heard/seen about animals that are fataly hit that still move anywhere from a few yards to several hundred yards. But they are still dead, they just haven't fallen over yet. Those that feel they have "put the bullet where it counts" perhaps see no reason to fire additional meat-ruining, potential for gut-shot rounds into an already dead animal.

Sure, sometimes if an animal is still moving after a shot in the heart/ lungs, a second or third shot may be warranted to anchor it by breaking a bone, if you were concerned about it getting into some spot that would make it hard to retreive, such as a lake. But if you were confident you hit that nice buck exactly where you wanted in the middle of a wide open field on the first shot, do you need to empty the mag into it just because it didn't fall over immediately?

That, I believe, is part of the message being put forth by the "put the bullet where it counts crowd. Once the confidence is built up by practice and experience, an individual can start to get a feel for whether his first shot is good, or if more rounds are needed. And perhaps can wait for the animal to fall over.;)
 
joe-nwt said:
All the talk of "shooting until it's down" goes hand in hand with "put the bullet in the right place", although it seems contridictory.

Think about it. We have heard/seen about animals that are fataly hit that still move anywhere from a few yards to several hundred yards. But they are still dead, they just haven't fallen over yet. Those that feel they have "put the bullet where it counts" perhaps see no reason to fire additional meat-ruining, potential for gut-shot rounds into an already dead animal.

Sure, sometimes if an animal is still moving after a shot in the heart/ lungs, a second or third shot may be warranted to anchor it by breaking a bone, if you were concerned about it getting into some spot that would make it hard to retreive, such as a lake. But if you were confident you hit that nice buck exactly where you wanted in the middle of a wide open field on the first shot, do you need to empty the mag into it just because it didn't fall over immediately?

That, I believe, is part of the message being put forth by the "put the bullet where it counts crowd. Once the confidence is built up by practice and experience, an individual can start to get a feel for whether his first shot is good, or if more rounds are needed. And perhaps can wait for the animal to fall over.;)
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Couldn't agree more.:)
 
I got a tree lounge video a while back, and all his deer stood right up on thier hind legs before they folded. Never seen that before either.
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I have, on a couple of deer. I was told that it's an indication of a solid heart shot in many deer, they either kick their back legs straght out or go up on 'em.
 
Tree lounge videos, spine shots on those :)
I hit a whitie in the heart @ 200 meters, and my buddy next to me was watching through bino's, I did not see the reaction but he did, the deer kicked up real high with his back legs.
165 game king by the way. Anyway the trail was 20 meters long and 1 meter wide. The heart was split in 2 equal halves..
 
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joe-nwt said:
That, I believe, is part of the message being put forth by the "put the bullet where it counts crowd. Once the confidence is built up by practice and experience, an individual can start to get a feel for whether his first shot is good, or if more rounds are needed. And perhaps can wait for the animal to fall over.;)
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I heartily endorse what is said here by joe-nwt. If I am certain of my shot, and the game cannot readily get to some god-forsaken tangle quickly, I'm disinclined to poke it full of holes to assure it goes down right there. I'm going to touch wood here, but so far, I have not lost a head of game. I did have one deer many years ago that I had to follow up the next morning, but he had only gone 200 meters past where I left off the evening before [darkness set in] Partly my own fault for trying to follow up too quickly. He got up from where he had laid down and headed into the thick stuff. One thing I don't buy, is that an animal can escape if shot solidly through the lungs with a bullet that gets in, and does expand. If the bullet fails to expand at all, or if it blows up in a rib and fails to penetrate, then an apparently good hit may result in a lost animal. I once had a 140 grain .270 bullet blow up completely on a rib of a Whitetail buck, and I anchored him with the second shot, but I knew immediately that something unusual had occurred, since the reaction of that deer was atypical of one that had suffered a lethal wound. This is one reason why I'm such a Partition fan. They expand reliably right down to 15-1700 fps, and always penetrate, even when asked to break bone. Regards, Eagleye.
 
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