Bullet Placement!

[bone-collector]

I'm doing my job. If these other slackards can't get down in the muck what am I sposed to do... insult their Momma"s... I will if I have too... I'm serious.

yer momma so stoopid when she went on vacation to disneyland she was driving down the freeway and saw a sign that said disneyland left<------




she turned around and went home !

and dont pick on Redd becuse he comes from a 3rd world province, you to can sponcer a child for .50 cents a day

 

[Gibbs505]

All the talk of "shooting until it's down" goes hand in hand with "put the bullet in the right place", although it seems contridictory.

Think about it. We have heard/seen about animals that are fataly hit that still move anywhere from a few yards to several hundred yards. But they are still dead, they just haven't fallen over yet. Those that feel they have "put the bullet where it counts" perhaps see no reason to fire additional meat-ruining, potential for gut-shot rounds into an already dead animal.

Sure, sometimes if an animal is still moving after a shot in the heart/ lungs, a second or third shot may be warranted to anchor it by breaking a bone, if you were concerned about it getting into some spot that would make it hard to retreive, such as a lake. But if you were confident you hit that nice buck exactly where you wanted in the middle of a wide open field on the first shot, do you need to empty the mag into it just because it didn't fall over immediately?

That, I believe, is part of the message being put forth by the "put the bullet where it counts crowd. Once the confidence is built up by practice and experience, an individual can start to get a feel for whether his first shot is good, or if more rounds are needed. And perhaps can wait for the animal to fall over.

Yes, indeed!!

 

[eltorro]

and dont pick on Redd becuse he comes from a 3rd world province, you to can sponcer a child for .50 cents a day

We use automatics here, in the aforementioned province.
Follow up shots come naturaly.

 

[BIGREDD]

All the talk of "shooting until it's down" goes hand in hand with "put the bullet in the right place", although it seems contridictory.

Think about it. We have heard/seen about animals that are fataly hit that still move anywhere from a few yards to several hundred yards. But they are still dead, they just haven't fallen over yet.

Sure, sometimes if an animal is still moving after a shot in the heart/ lungs, a second or third shot may be warranted to anchor it by breaking a bone, if you were concerned about it getting into some spot that would make it hard to retreive, such as a lake. But if you were confident you hit that nice buck exactly where you wanted in the middle of a wide open field on the first shot, do you need to empty the mag into it just because it didn't fall over immediately?

That, I believe, is part of the message being put forth by the "put the bullet where it counts crowd. Once the confidence is built up by practice and experience, an individual can start to get a feel for whether his first shot is good, or if more rounds are needed. And perhaps can wait for the animal to fall over.

I'm sorry but this is nonsense... what your saying is that you can feel if your shot is good. Yeah right, maybe if your dialed into the Psychic Hotline via Sat-Phone.
Last time I checked Super Man was the only guy with X-Ray Vision.

I agree that if you see your shot impact through the scope or you are close enough to witness the lungs blow out the other side you can say that's it!
Out in the open, where you can watch your game and it stays in your line of sight for many minutes you have the luxury of close inspection. This is common in the west and some of the areas in the east. But in many areas and a lot of hunting circumstances you have a short window of opportunity to shoot and see the game! The cover takes away your ability to watch the game and figure how your shot has connected and the animal is going down.

Many times on the range I have felt that a shot is good only to inspect the target to find an unexplained flyer! I know this has happened to everyone here. I have witnessed and shot animals that went down and got up again. And I have heard the old adage "I thought I hit him good, I don't know what happened?" after an unsuccessful tracking session!

 

[walksalot]

I have shot animals that went on a short run and I have never thought about putting another bullet in the chamber. I knew the bullet placement was such that, in my mind, I couldn't have missed and I haven't been wrong yet.
I think ones hunting strategy has alot to do with follow up shots. If ones hunting strategy dictates that alot of animals will be on the move then it is harder to acertain if the first shot would be fatal.

 

[savagefan]

1,000 lbs. of moose doing a 50 yd. death run through ugly tangle after being killed with a well placed shot is gonna take a lot of work to get out. Hence "shoot till it's down"

 

[Levi Garrett]

Wanna get a first hand look , visit places that cut up deer meat, and have a look in the cooler, check out the skinned deer, it will give everyone a good idea of shot placement May even find a few 200 lb deer that yield 50 lbs of meat...

 

[joe-nwt]

Many times on the range I have felt that a shot is good only to inspect the target to find an unexplained flyer! I know this has happened to everyone here.

Really? So that flyer that is what, a couple inches off on paper is somehow going to miss the boiler room on a deer at the "close up short window of oppertunity" you deal with in the east?

I just love your "creative post whoring by last word", but you have gone full circle here in one post!

 

[mdbuckle]

1,000 lbs. of moose doing a 50 yd. death run through ugly tangle after being killed with a well placed shot is gonna take a lot of work to get out. Hence "shoot till it's down"

Yes, that is usually the way we work where I hunt. Lots of narrow roads surrounded by very dense woods. Even 4 30-06 bullets couldn't slow a moose I shot last year enough. He ran about 100 yards into the woods and dissapeared.

 

[Levi Garrett]

LOL, priceless Joe

 

[stubblejumper]

Yes, that is usually the way we work where I hunt. Lots of narrow roads surrounded by very dense woods. Even 4 30-06 bullets couldn't slow a moose I shot last year enough. He ran about 100 yards into the woods and dissapeared.

By disappeared,do you mean that the moose was not recovered?

 

[Foxer]

I guess it depends on the situation a little. But i have to say, bigreds' got a point.

Here's a quick story - last year my dad managed to call in a moose at about 70 -100 yards, just inside a treeline. He had a good rest - lined up, waited for the moose to give him a good bit of broadside instead of going for the chest shot, got the shot and fired. Moose went down like a tonne of bricks. Now - he knew everything 'looked' and 'felt' right. The animal was out of sight, but he had made a good shot that he'd made 100 times before. But, he noticed something kind of 'sounded' funny when he shot but didn't think of it.

He waited a while, went up to the spot - no moose. Searched for hours, no hint of blood, no sign of the moose.

After examining the case, and talking to his long time hunting buddy who was right there, we determined that the cartridge was faulty - probably a half charge of powder or perhaps some of the powder had been contaminated when loading - the brass looked new with no carbon scoring around the neck and our friend had noticed the 'bang' wasn't nearly the same roar it usually was.

As it turned out, some other friends were going into the area and we told them where to look for this moose, thinking if it wasn't badly hit it might be back. Sure enough they shot it, and on inspection they found a fresh grazing wound right along it's knee. No real damage, surely not enough to seriously impede the animal or produce blood, but i guess when it got hit in the knee it went down, then got up and took off behind the trees where dad couldn't see it.

Now dad never would have had a chance at a second shot - but it just goes to show you that a shot can 'feel' good', you're 'sure' you hit, but something went a little wrong and the animals not nearly as hurt as you thought.

 

[Jay]

Foxer is right! I had something simular happen once when I shot a 6 point buck with my 7mm rem mag...

This was BEFORE I started reloading all my own hunting ammo... Anyhow, I had a buck come out broadside along a game trail, I aimed behind his front shoulder and bang! Rather than BANG... This was a boss equipped a-bolt and normally sent people running from the range to avoid the blast...

Anyhow, I got down, walked over to the spot the deer was standing, about 50 or 75 yards away and there was blood... I carefully walked up to the deer, which had gone about 50 or so yards... As I looked at the deer, I could tell that it had fallen on the side the bullet had entered AND, there was NO exit wound!!! A first for the gun/cartridge combination, there was always an apple sized exit wound...

At this point I touched the deer behind the front shoulder, felt something and gingerly cut out my bullet that had fully expanded and gone from 150 grains to 65 grains!!! I still have that bullet!!! And, it got me thinking about how the shot had felt different and certainly sounded different!!!

So, lessons learned, I now MAKE all my own ammo on a single stage RCBS rockchucker!!! Much better ammo and SO satisfying!!!

Cheers
Jay

 

[Gatehouse]

I relaly don't see the problem wiht a follow up shot, even if you are 90% sure that your first bullet has landed properly. I say 90% sure because things arent' perfect and you can never be sure until you are gutting it..

If it ruins a bit of meat, so be it. I'd rther lose a pound or 2 of hamburger than the whole animal, because I was too overconfident to believe that anythign was anything less than perfect.

 

[stubblejumper]

At this point I touched the deer behind the front shoulder, felt something and gingerly cut out my bullet that had fully expanded and gone from 150 grains to 65 grains!

That amount of retained weight is actually very normal for a 7mmremmag factory load,and would indicate that the velocity was substancial.In the case of a reduced velocity load,the bullet will normally expand less and penetrate more,while retaining more of it's weight.

I aimed behind his front shoulder and bang! Rather than BANG... This was a boss equipped a-bolt and normally sent people running from the range to avoid the blast

This is also not unusual in that when shooting at game,most people often don't feel the full recoil or hear the full report of a gun.

At this point I touched the deer behind the front shoulder, felt something and gingerly cut out my bullet

If that was the aiming point,this too would lead one to believe that the cartridge did ignite normally.

I have no way of knowing whether or not the cartridge did fire normally,but I am just providing a logical explanation for your suspicions.

However your experience is not the norm as in most cases where bad ammunition or bullet failure is blamed,the animal was not recovered.Blaming the ammunition or bullet seems much easier for most people to accept than admitting that their aim was flawed or that the bullet may have struck an obstacle such as a branch on it's way to the animal.Some people even manage to convince themselves that the ammunition,gun,or scope was defective.The truth is that unless the animal is recovered,you have no way of knowing where the bullet struck or how the bullet performed.I have witnessed several instances where an animal was fired at by one person who was absolutely sure that he made a fatal shot, and then the animal was killed shortly afterward with another shot.In every case,the bullet did not strike where the original shooter had thought it did.At that point I have also heard every excuse you can imagine for the discreptancy.I have seen a couple of cases where equipment was really the cause,but in almost every case,the real cause was shooter error.

 

[bone-collector]

I relaly don't see the problem wiht a follow up shot, even if you are 90% sure that your first bullet has landed properly. I say 90% sure because things arent' perfect and you can never be sure until you are gutting it..

If it ruins a bit of meat, so be it. I'd rther lose a pound or 2 of hamburger than the whole animal, because I was too overconfident to believe that anythign was anything less than perfect.

well said Clarke

you will have to join us in texada this fall with your 375 for those vicious deer, I am dieing to see a FOLLOW up shot

 

[Foxer]

you will have to join us in texada this fall with your 375 for those vicious deer, I am dieing to see a FOLLOW up shot

well he better bring his shotgun then, cause it'd be more like skeet at that point

 

[Levi Garrett]

Don't shoot unicorn bucks

 

[ivo]

If it ruins a bit of meat, so be it. I'd rther lose a pound or 2 of hamburger than the whole animal, because I was too overconfident to believe that anythign was anything less than perfect.

This is where I am going to get burned one day.
In the last few years I have had a couple of cases where I have shot an animal and had it run into close bush thinking " It was a well placed shot, I'll find him just in the tree line" only to be suprised that the deer ran 100 yards after getting his heart turned into pate.

I am guitly of being over confident when shooting at game but Gatehouse has a good point, its only a bit extra bloodshot meat.

Good post BR, people just like to state the obvious I guess.

Ivo

 

[joe-nwt]

This is where I am going to get burned one day.
In the last few years I have had a couple of cases where I have shot an animal and had it run into close bush thinking " It was a well placed shot, I'll find him just in the tree line" only to be suprised that the deer ran 100 yards after getting his heart turned into pate.

I am guitly of being over confident when shooting at game but Gatehouse has a good point, its only a bit extra bloodshot meat.

Good post BR, people just like to state the obvious I guess.

Ivo

2 points, both are just my opinion.

First, that deer with the pate heart that ran 100yards? There is a good posibility that it will still run 100yards with another hole in it. Unless, of course, you start breaking bone. Then we are no longer talking about a "couple" pounds of meat. Which leads to point #2.

After the first shot, you no longer have the luxury of taking your time if you are taking that second shot. More than likely, the animal will be in a flat out run( to the best of it's ability wounded) and once again the odds of it just being a couple pounds more meat grow against you.