Bullet seating depth drama

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mungojeerie

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Hello All
Thank you in advance for anyone offering thoughts on what to do and if you think this would be a safe round to shoot.... as it is I am concerned. I am new to reloading so very unsure of what to do with this situation.

Rifle is a Tikka T3 Lite chambered in .338 Win Mag. I have been shooting factory Hornady Superformance 225gr SST out of it with decent results but I have wanted to switch it up. I shoot Berger VLD reloads out of my .270 WSM and love them so have been wanting to try Bergers in the .338
Bullets are Berger Elite Hunter 250gr, powder is 60gr (min. recommended) of IMR 4350 and the cases are once fired Hornady factory rounds that have been annealed, sized, trimmed (signifigantly), de burred and chamfered.

I reloaded some rounds to try for 3 rifles yesterday, for each rifle I measured the lands and then subtracted .020" as my jump to the lands.The first two calibers I loaded were .270 WSM for a Browning X-Bolt and 6.5 Creedmoor for a Browning X-Bolt Target Max, both of those rounds were seated with a .020" jump to the lands, they both look normal, just barely fit in the mags and cycle through the rifles just fine.

The Tikka is another story. My measurement from case head to the lands was 2.6755" so I seated the bullet with a .020" jump to the lands at 2.6555" which gave the bullet a COAL of 3.5100. The COAL of the factory round was 3.3060" and Bergers recommended COAL was 3.3400", a difference of 0.1700"!

Seating to a COAL of 3.5100" the round looked normal, maybe slightly longer but not abnormal looking but there was no way in hell that thing was going to fit in the magazine. I seated the bullet as much as I needed in order to get it to just barely fit in the magazine which was 3.3375"

Now the round looks strange, the bullet looks like its seated too far and the neck opening of the case is at the start of the bullets ogive, which makes it look strange.

My questions is what do you think about this round? do you think its safe to try firing? Due to the COAL restrictions there is now a huge jump to the lands, in fact so much that I cannot even measure it as now the case neck bottoms out in the gauge. If these are safe to shoot, will they just shoot like ####? Is this a bullet issue or a rifle issue? I'm tempted to shoot it as it is only 0.0025" shorter than Bergers recommended COAL, however as I am relatively inexperienced I would appreciate input from you knowledgeable folks.

What would you do?
 
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The shape of those VLD bullets makes them hard to load up close to the lands like that. You might just have to pick different bullets for your Tikka if they won’t fit in the mag.

If you’re worried about firing them (sorry I didn’t see how much and what kind of powder you used), just pull them apart and start over.

In terms of safety, what’s more important than what Berger says the COAL should be is how deep you’ve actually seated the bullet, and reduced the volume of the case.

And, you’re right, seating the bullet too deep can cause pressure issues, no way to know whether it’s safe or not without knowing how close you are to the max load.

If it was me, I’d either single-feed them at the correct COAL (which is fine for target shooting, but impractical for hunting), or just pull them apart and use different bullets.
 
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Maybe look into a chassis system for that Tikka?

e.g. MDT makes some chassis models for the Tikka long action inlets. These chassis use their AICS style mags, and for their 300 PRC and 300 Win Mag compatible magazines they state:
"Tikka T3/T3x and Savage Axis long action calibers in our chassis you must use the 3.560" option".
For COAL they state: "3.560" magazine: 3.480" COAL"

So it looks like that chassis and magazine is maybe in the ballbark for how you can seat those longer bullets in your Tikka.
Pity that it might take alot of additional cash to meet that objective.
 
why fret about the jump ? factory ammo is meant to function in factory rifles
Use a oal that feeds fires and ejects, work up the powder charge for that bullet in that rifle
 
Mungojeerie, Tikkas as often as not are not sensitive about OAL, unless you're trying to sqeeze the maximum accuracy out of your particular load.

Tikkas are noted for having on median spec chambers with tight necks and throats that are deep enough to take even the longest bullets and still shoot very well.

As such, the Berger Elite Hunter 250 grain bullets are designed in such a manner that they have their bearing surface seated to one caliber of depth, which does encroach on powder space, which from your load isn't an issue. This boils down to a loaded cartridge still being able to fit into your rifle's magazine and feed easily without issues.

I can't really deduce what your accuracy requirements are, other than you want the best you can get from your particular rifle.

Just be prepared that these bullets may not give you better accuracy than you have been getting with the Hornady bullets, no matter the distance you seat them from the leade.

You're showing a "minimum'' load. Bergers usually do best with loads that are close to max case capacity density and IMR4350 is a very good choice of powders but may not be optimal.

IMHO, your rifle, if everything is done right will shoot most bullets into sub moa groups, which is what it was designed to do.

Anything better than that is a bonus.

Good on you for learning everything you can about what this rifle will shoot well. Not many newbies are willing to learn the intricacies of handloading.
 
mungojeerie said:
Hello All
Thank you in advance for anyone offering thoughts on what to do and if you think this would be a safe round to shoot.... as it is I am concerned. I am new to reloading so very unsure of what to do with this situation.

Rifle is a Tikka T3 Lite chambered in .338 Win Mag. I have been shooting factory Hornady Superformance 225gr SST out of it with decent results but I have wanted to switch it up. I shoot Berger VLD reloads out of my .270 WSM and love them so have been wanting to try Bergers in the .338
Bullets are Berger Elite Hunter 250gr, powder is 60gr (min. recommended) of IMR 4350 and the cases are once fired Hornady factory rounds that have been annealed, sized, trimmed (signifigantly), de burred and chamfered.

I reloaded some rounds to try for 3 rifles yesterday, for each rifle I measured the lands and then subtracted .020" as my jump to the lands.The first two calibers I loaded were .270 WSM for a Browning X-Bolt and 6.5 Creedmoor for a Browning X-Bolt Target Max, both of those rounds were seated with a .020" jump to the lands, they both look normal, just barely fit in the mags and cycle through the rifles just fine.

The Tikka is another story. My measurement from case head to the lands was 2.6755" so I seated the bullet with a .020" jump to the lands at 2.6555" which gave the bullet a COAL of 3.5100. The COAL of the factory round was 3.3060" and Bergers recommended COAL was 3.3400", a difference of 0.1700"!

Seating to a COAL of 3.5100" the round looked normal, maybe slightly longer but not abnormal looking but there was no way in hell that thing was going to fit in the magazine. I seated the bullet as much as I needed in order to get it to just barely fit in the magazine which was 3.3375"

Now the round looks strange, the bullet looks like its seated too far and the neck opening of the case is at the start of the bullets ogive, which makes it look strange.

My questions is what do you think about this round? do you think its safe to try firing? Due to the COAL restrictions there is now a huge jump to the lands, in fact so much that I cannot even measure it as now the case neck bottoms out in the gauge. If these are safe to shoot, will they just shoot like ####? Is this a bullet issue or a rifle issue? I'm tempted to shoot it as it is only 0.0025" shorter than Bergers recommended COAL, however as I am relatively inexperienced I would appreciate input from you knowledgeable folks.

What would you do?
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The first thing that needs to be figured out is the purpose of the round you’re loading.
I wouldn’t recommend a target bullet if you are developing a hunting load.

Secondly if you will be hunting with this round you need to use a COAL that fits in your magazine.
Everything else is irrelevant.

Since I only own a 338 Lapua Magnum I did a bit of research on this round and this is what I read on another forum.

Load them as long as you want, you'll be lucky to push the 250 gr faster than 2600 fps out of a factory length barrel. Do your calculations from there for the 300 gr.

Simply put, the .338 Win Mag is better suited with bullets less than 250 grain.
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You may have to go back to the 225gr Hornady SST or similar bullet to get the velocity you may want.
 
Thanks for the suggestion, its an interesting thought, but for the price I would rather just sell the rifle and buy something else. I have a 6.5 creedmoor browning x-bolt target max and it uses the same mdt mags, they're nice in that the mags are cheap, but I dont like them, they are noisy and rattle around.
 
Thanks, I spoke to Berger and they said not safe too shoot, so I pulled them apart and went with a different bullet, experienced trauma at the range with that one, so I will post about that in another thread.
 
I just figured I have the stuff to do it, so why not measure and adjust for the lands. in the end it seems Im more a slave to the magazine than anything.
 
I have shot Berger VLD in my .270wsm for many many years and taken deer, moose, elk, bear etc and have always loved them, so I had wanted to run something similar in my .338. but yes, it seems that these bullets are just too long for the Tikka mags. I switched to some hornady 225gr SST which is what I was shooting for factory ammo.... I had a scary situation at the range with those, so I will post about that in another thread looking for insight and thoughts.
 
Thanks for the in depth reply Bearhunter.
I shoot Berger VLD of my xbolt .270WSM and I have always loved how they perform for both accuracy and as a hunting round which is why I was hoping to use them on the .338. I spoke to Berger and they said not safe to shoot based on the coal I had to use in order to use the magazine.

I am not into long distance competition or anything, I will only hunt with these rounds, but that being said of course if I can improve accuracy in the cartridge then that only helps. most things you shoot end up being under 80 yards, but I have felt comfortable shooting out to 500 with my .270WSM and was hoping to do at least that with this gun.

I unloaded the rounds and reloaded them with hornady 225gr SST, but had some bad stuff happen at the range, I will post on that in another thread to get peoples thoughts. Not really sure what to do with that round now.

Thanks for taking the time and thank you all for offering information in a helpful and polite way, I do appreciate it.
 
mungojeerie said:
Thanks for the in depth reply Bearhunter.
I shoot Berger VLD of my xbolt .270WSM and I have always loved how they perform for both accuracy and as a hunting round which is why I was hoping to use them on the .338. I spoke to Berger and they said not safe to shoot based on the coal I had to use in order to use the magazine.

I am not into long distance competition or anything, I will only hunt with these rounds, but that being said of course if I can improve accuracy in the cartridge then that only helps. most things you shoot end up being under 80 yards, but I have felt comfortable shooting out to 500 with my .270WSM and was hoping to do at least that with this gun.

I unloaded the rounds and reloaded them with hornady 225gr SST, but had some bad stuff happen at the range, I will post on that in another thread to get peoples thoughts. Not really sure what to do with that round now.

Thanks for taking the time and thank you all for offering information in a helpful and polite way, I do appreciate it.
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Berger was likely never going to say a round someone else loaded was safe to shoot. That would open the company to unlimited risk and why on earth would they do that?

Likely the most obvious reason you were told the round was not safe to shoot was because the bullet seated very deep into the case which would cause overpressure.

WHY, WHY, WHY are you using a long range VLD bullet for short range hunting? They are not designed for that and they offer zero benefit for that. Choose a more suitable bullet for short range hunting. FWIW, 500 yds is not even close to long range. VLD bullets are simply not needed at anything under 800 - 1000 yds.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
Berger was likely never going to say a round someone else loaded was safe to shoot. That would open the company to unlimited risk and why on earth would they do that?

Likely the most obvious reason you were told the round was not safe to shoot was because the bullet seated very deep into the case which would cause overpressure.

WHY, WHY, WHY are you using a long range VLD bullet for short range hunting? They are not designed for that and they offer zero benefit for that. Choose a more suitable bullet for short range hunting. FWIW, 500 yds is not even close to long range. VLD bullets are simply not needed at anything under 800 - 1000 yds.
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Ya, I get Berger wanting to cover their butts, but I have messaged with them on another item and I found them very honest. The reason I was concerned in the first place was that the bullet was seated so far into the case and from what I have learnt before I started reloading that seemed to be something you want to avoid due to the creation of excess pressure, which they confirmed and suggested against shooting.

I realize that 500 yards is not long distance hunting to many, but the fact of the matter is it's rare for me to get opportunities for distance shots, my main reason for choosing that round was because I shoot the Hunting VLD's out of my .270wsm and they have always performed great and I personally feel like they drop game faster with the way they act after impact. The elite hunters seem to be the only hunting bullet that berger makes for .338 Win Mag so that is why I chose it, and found no information suggesting that it are not designed for or would perform poorly sub 500 yards.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
WHY, WHY, WHY are you using a long range VLD bullet for short range hunting? They are not designed for that and they offer zero benefit for that. Choose a more suitable bullet for short range hunting. FWIW, 500 yds is not even close to long range. VLD bullets are simply not needed at anything under 800 - 1000 yds.
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Can’t argue with that logic, it will even save you some cash…Bergers aren’t exactly priced for budget racing.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
Berger was likely never going to say a round someone else loaded was safe to shoot. That would open the company to unlimited risk and why on earth would they do that?

Likely the most obvious reason you were told the round was not safe to shoot was because the bullet seated very deep into the case which would cause overpressure.

WHY, WHY, WHY are you using a long range VLD bullet for short range hunting? They are not designed for that and they offer zero benefit for that. Choose a more suitable bullet for short range hunting. FWIW, 500 yds is not even close to long range. VLD bullets are simply not needed at anything under 800 - 1000 yds.
Click to expand...

WELL Said - Even if you don’t Care :p:rolleyes: RJ
 
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