Bullet seating inconsistencies with less single stage?

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micus

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Hi guys,

I am a fairly novice reloader, however, I enjoy it quite a bit and have gotten some awesome results tweaking various loads for a couple rifles. I started out loaded with the Lee anniversary kit and it has been pretty good. I upgraded to an arsenal digital powder scale and a few other little niceties, but that's about it.

I have noticed though, when seating bullets, I can do a run of maybe 5 cartridges say, for a 3.68 COAL, but some will measure out 3.685, 3.682, 3.688, etc. As in, there is some variance. I know I am somewhat splitting hairs, but is there a way to get some more precision out of this, as in 100% consistency? due higher end presses achieve this?

I think being anal about these things kind of goes hand in hand with reloading, at least that's what I am finding.

Mike.
 
You may be getting the couple thou variation just from the tip of the bullet. Try just doing the measurements from the ojive of the bullet for more consistency..
 
There are myriad reasons this could be happening and many more experienced than I will chime in shortly. I will say I had a similar problem and I stripped down my seating die to find a metal shaving from the manufacturing process up inside. So if you have not already tried you could clean your die. That said, not a huge spread you are faced with there.

Good luck
 
take a few projectiles out of the box and simply measure those, if you found variation there then it may be time to step up to a higher end projectile. Also another member mentioned taking apart your die and cleaning it, a good idea. If nothing else, casting or swaging your own projectiles is always an option. an expensive time consuming one but still an option.
 
When I have had an issue like this it is when I had a compressed load (bullet compresses the powder) some of the bullets move back out a bit. So that may be one thing to look into as well.
 
Hi Micus...
I had the exact issue and can share the remedies this evening.
Just to confirm a few things
- Lee single stage press
- Lee dies
- what manufacturer of brass are you using?
- bullet manufacturer and type?
- cartridge you are reloading for
- are you measuring to the tip or using a comparator type of system?

Regards
Ron
 
OP, if you're not competing, you have no need to worry or get more 'anal'. As long as you can verify that your seating die isn't engaging the tips of your bullets instead of somewhere on the ogive(some bullets like VLD's will encounter this problem with some dies), the variations should be inconsequential. Yes, there are things like case neck hardnesses or cleanliness or compressed charges that can come into play but as long as you're not running high pressures with bullets seated on or into the rifling and not looking to take a grasshopper's eye out at 100 paces, you're good! You'd be much further ahead getting more anal with powder charge consistency.

Rooster
 
Pick up the Hornady comparator and measure to the ojive. Like 358Rooster said, unless your using a VLD, the seater should be pushing the bullet into the case by the ojive and not the tip.

Only time you should be using an OAL measurement is to see if loaded Ammo will fit the magazine.
 
I'm going to side with a previous poster and point to the brass. A variation of a few 1000's at the neck of the brass itself is likely your culprit. As mentioned, the die should be exerting pressure on the ogive of the projectile, not the tip, so a soft point shouldn't matter.
 
Micus,

Lots of experience and wisdom on the posts here. I was where you were at a year and a half ago so take this from that perspective and in-fact, I started with the same kit. It’s now a lot different and I’ve learned a lot here from others. (Thanks all) My first post was almost exactly like yours.

As others have suggested dastt, Rod B., and Shooter, a comparator will eliminate some variables such as bullet inconsistency as well as will be useful if you advance down the path of knowing and tweaking more specifics about specific rifle. (I have the hornady system and besides the press, is the most used set of tools to understand what’s happening.) I can’t speak to compressed loads and die set ups as others have shared…I haven’t experienced that yet.

358Rooster, in my opinion, has hit the nail on the head. I’ve kind of slipped down the rabbit hole from the necessity to solve the different bullet seating depths and different amount of seating force from load to load. As he has stated, it may not be worth the effort in the parameters you may be operating in. If you are like me and need to solve the problem…well…read further and I’ll share my experiences solving this issue.

Two things that caused inconsistent seating depths, furthering Chrossphyre’s comment

1. Inconsistent brass, specifically neck thickness. Federal. That was the reason for my post earlier requesting more information. (Perhaps starting with Norma or Lapua I would be carrying on merrily on my way, not having an issue or concern…but then I wouldn’t have learned what I have.) Almost round to round there was different force required and resulting different seating depths. I wasn’t satisfied and for me there were results at the range to support. YMMV. There are a few solutions for that.

2. Dry neck lubricant inside the neck helped prior to seating, but wasn’t the largest factor. #1 was.

3. A third thing unrelated to solving the issue but important was understanding what the dies are supposed to do vs. what you are getting for results. There are many different die options out there with related specific adjustments that accomplish certain things. I’ll be honest in stating that in the beginning I didn’t have to know, but as inconsistencies arose, I had to. I’m better for it and can trouble shoot a bit more.

To interpret what’s going on within the process, I’ve purchased more tools, not originally anticipated. Further I’ve purchased better components understanding why the components are more expensive for good reason.

I’m in this for producing repeatable accurate ammunition for hunting that performs as I believe it should. For me its much better than factory ammo and has better performance for those undesired hunting situations. A byproduct is the satisfaction of making shots with something you’ve made and look on your range/hunting buddy’s faces.:cool:

Surf around here for information. The search tool is pretty good!
Regards
Ron
 
One thing to be mentioned is the Dies themselves. Are they fitted snug? The rubber o-rings Lee uses in their dies can cause inconsistency.

If you feel the need for better, and to rule out the press, popping for a set of Forester Seating dies or their set can make a big difference.

With my .204 Ruger, they have really helped to tighten the groups, and make a better round of ammunition. And I have used RCBS, Lee dies. Now for precision work, it's Forester for me :)
 
Hi guys, wow, some great information here. The gun I have tweaked loads with the most is my 30-06. I have been working with various bullets but am now using the 168 A-max over federal brass, fed LR primers and h4350.

I have Lee, RCBS, and Hornady dies, of which, I have found Hornady to be the nicest. I find the quick detach collet that lee uses to be a little frustrating and I think there is a bit of slack that develops in it now that I look at it again.

I am starting to work on loads for a 300 rum and with the cost of powder and bullets that the thing eats, I would like to get it dialed as soon as possible. I plan on loading Swift A-frames or sciroccos for my all around big game load, I wouldn't consider either VLD's however, I also have a box of 212gr hornady ELDx that claim a G1 of .673 which I would like to tinker with with that rifle. I have Remington and Hornady brass for the RUM.
 
I have had some similar problems with my .270 win seater die. I'm using hornady 150g SP bullets. I seated my first bullet to the COAL of 3.212. I have measured my bullets and they are not consistent up to .006 variance. So my COAL varies from -.002 up to +.006. I was told to leave the seater where it is because the bullet lead is not consistent on the SP. I was told as long as I seat the ogive consistently I will get more accuracy and don't worry about the COAL, vs adjusting the seater die to accommodate the COAL I desire to match the 3.212 .

So should I follow this advice? It sound right to me.

FYI, replied to this post rather than start a new post on the same subject...
 
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You are measuring to the tip of the bullet. But the die pushes the bullet into the case by pushing farther down on the curve of the bullet.

Bullets vary from one another with respect the distance from the ogive to the tip. Especially so with hollow points.

The manufacturing process is such that this distance is not well controlled and also, with some (most) manufactures, there are several machines making the same bullet and you box of bullets came from 2 or more machines.

Your rifle only cares about the distance of the ogive to the rifling. The Tip to rifling is of no consequence. If you want to measure OAL that matters, make a device that sits on the ogive. I make little collars from pieces of scarp barrel, and then measure from case head to the top of the collar.

COALTOOL.jpg
 
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