Bullet Size Questions

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Nostalgiccollector

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Hi All,

I'm new to this so please bear with me... I have a question regarding bullet sizing for my Modele 1892 French Revolver. From another forum I found:

"C.I.P. calls for 8.28mm, or .326",
Graf's sells copper plated bullets at .330"
The Fiocchi ammo I have measures .319" with calipers"

I bought some .330“ Graf bullets for reloading my Fiocchi Heritage 8mm Lebel brass. Upon reading more I found out it is larger than the true measurements of the bore from that other forum: "Meanwhile my 1892 revolver's bore slugs out at .311" lands and .3265" grooves"

I've read others have measured their groves at .327".

I found Highwood Casting does custom sized soft lead at .327" or unsized at .329“. I want to preserve this antique as long as possible.

Questions:
Will I damage or wear the barrel if I shoot my 400 rounds of Graf's .330 TCJ RN through?
Will it damage or wear the barrel by running through a hundred rounds of the Fiocchi to get the brass?
It's my understanding that soft lead will cause much less wear, should I just ditch the Graf's and only use the custom soft lead?

Any other advice is welcome!

TIA!
 
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I do not know if those Graf's bullets are simply copper plated or jacketed - I believe there is a difference for your situation.

Like you, I had read that lead bullets about easiest on barrels as exists - - but would not surprise me that you could take apart a firearm with the load that you put behind it. Is my understanding that, especially with black powder, the bullet base will get "obturated" up in diameter to seal to the groove walls - but I have no idea how many thou it will do that - there is a rifle here (maybe is not comparable) with a groove diameter of 0.282" - it gets like 4" and 5" diameter 3 shot groups at 25 yards with multiple loads and various brands of 0.277" bullets, so I am of the opinion, so far, that 0.005" difference is "too much" difference, at least in this rifle.

I have read several posts that "poo-poo" the business about oversize bullets in a bore - that the free-bore area will simply swage the bullets down to size - I can not see that happening, without the breech pressure going up, though - especially with jacketed bullets. If you are mostly concerned to get longest life from that arm, I would suggest sensible level loads, using cast bullets that are sized to perhaps a thou or two over the groove size - or do a "throat packing" and size your bullets to match the throat. It is my experience to "slug" a rifled bore (push a piece of soft lead from chamber out muzzle, or other way) and then to measure that slug with a micrometer to come up with a groove dimension - that will be the smallest groove diameter in the bore that the slug passed through. I suspect others feel they can get the same information by actually measuring at the muzzle with a calliper - each to their own, I guess.

I do not own a revolver, but there was an article in Rifle Magazine by Brian Pierce where he had a "modern" type six shot revolver that plug gauges showed the cylinder diameters were not the same - from that, not sure I would expect the breech pressures to be the same, for the same loading, from those different sized cylinders - that might also be something to verify in your revolver. Perhaps plug gauges not needed - a "slug" from any cylinder would go through all the others, if they were the same size? But would need to make six slugs, and then run each through the other five cylinders to know for sure? (assuming yours is a six shot revolver).
 
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Potashminer said:
I do not know if those Graf's bullets are simply copper plated or jacketed - I believe there is a difference for your situation.

Like you, I had read that lead bullets about easiest on barrels as exists - - but would not surprise me that you could take apart a firearm with the load that you put behind it. Is my understanding that, especially with black powder, the bullet base will get "obturated" up in diameter to seal to the groove walls - but I have no idea how many thou it will do that - there is a rifle here (maybe is not comparable) with a groove diameter of 0.282" - it gets like 4" and 5" diameter 3 shot groups at 25 yards with multiple loads and various brands of 0.277" bullets, so I am of the opinion, so far, that 0.005" difference is "too much" difference, at least in this rifle.

I have read several posts that "poo-poo" the business about oversize bullets in a bore - that the free-bore area will simply swage the bullets down to size - I can not see that happening, without the breech pressure going up, though - especially with jacketed bullets. If you are mostly concerned to get longest life from that arm, I would suggest sensible level loads, using cast bullets that are sized to perhaps a thou or two over the groove size - or do a "throat packing" and size your bullets to match the throat. It is my experience to "slug" a rifled bore (push a piece of soft lead from chamber out muzzle, or other way) and then to measure that slug with a micrometer to come up with a groove dimension - that will be the smallest groove diameter in the bore that the slug passed through. I suspect others feel they can get the same information by actually measuring at the muzzle with a calliper - each to their own, I guess.
Click to expand...

Wow, thanks for the detailed reply Potashminer. The. 330 Grafs are plated. I will do some measurements when I get home!
 
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First being a revolver you really need to measure your chamber throats and rifling as potashminer conjectures. It’s not uncommon to find differences - chambers much tighter than the bore and vice versa. Also keep in mind that being a revolver you may observe a forcing cone at the start of the barrel. This is very different from free bore in a rifle.

I would advise against any notion of metallic projectiles in a revolver of that vintage. I can show you a great antique Colt that looks like a smooth bore after a diet of copper ammunition.

There are lots of folks (me included) shooting cast lead five thousandths under spec or measurements in Webley 38/200 revolvers. The results are usually acceptable. The usual recommendation for cast bullets is two thousandths over the groove size but no more.

Just for curiosity I might pull a Fiocchi bullet and see where it will and won’t fit by hand. They are probably open base and expand some on firing. You could try to recover one from a sandbag and see how much rifling engaged it. The Fiocchi made for 38 S&W/ 38/200 has been found by some to be ‘hot’, but I have no direct experience.

Once you have your measurement go buy some lead. If you are picky or the measurements you get are disparate a bullet sizing die might be in your future as well.
 
Most 8mm lebel revolver groove diameters are .326" to .327". There are some with larger and some with smaller dimensions. 0.327" would be right for your revolver.

The jacketed bullets will might cause more wear on the rifling, but I have no idea how much or if 100 rounds would make any real difference. The lebel revolver has better steel than the webley service revolvers of the same era. The webley barrels are very soft and it is not rare for them have little to no rifling left if they were converted to 45acp and were used with jacketed bullets since their Medford rifling was very shallow to start with.

Personally I would be more comfortable shooting the lead bullets from Highwood.
 
Why not slug your barrel? Then you'll know exactly what you're working with.

Undersized soft lead = lots of lead fouling
Grossly oversized soft lead = chambering issues and more pressure
Just right is usually about 0.001" - 0.002" larger than your bore

Plated ammo works differently - typically, you don't want it under or oversized at all. Like everything, there are exceptions
 
Nostalgiccollector said:
Hi All,

I'm new to this so please bear with me... I have a question regarding bullet sizing for my Modele 1892 French Revolver. From another forum I found:

"C.I.P. calls for 8.28mm, or .326",
Graf's sells copper plated bullets at .330"
The Fiocchi ammo I have measures .319" with calipers"

I bought some .330“ Graf bullets for reloading my Fiocchi Heritage 8mm Lebel brass. Upon reading more I found out it is larger than the true measurements of the bore from that other forum: "Meanwhile my 1892 revolver's bore slugs out at .311" lands and .3265" grooves"

I've read others have measured their groves at .327".

I found Highwood Casting does custom sized soft lead at .327" or unsized at .329“. I want to preserve this antique as long as possible.

Questions:
Will I damage or wear the barrel if I shoot my 400 rounds of Graf's .330 TCJ RN through?
Will it damage or wear the barrel by running through a hundred rounds of the Fiocchi to get the brass?
It's my understanding that soft lead will cause much less wear, should I just ditch the Graf's and only use the custom soft lead?

Any other advice is welcome!

TIA!
Click to expand...

i was making bullets for mine. accurate 330110B 8mm lebel revolver RNFN (33-110B) 110Gr I have a .327 sizer. if you are interested in a few to try, send me a pm in a week. will be too busy at work this week to drop any...
 
Canuck65 said:
Why not slug your barrel? Then you'll know exactly what you're working with.

Undersized soft lead = lots of lead fouling
Grossly oversized soft lead = chambering issues and more pressure
Just right is usually about 0.001" - 0.002" larger than your bore

Plated ammo works differently - typically, you don't want it under or oversized at all. Like everything, there are exceptions
Click to expand...

He said he did slug the barrel in his first post.
 
The Accurate 33-110J is an excellent bullet design. I sold +/- 40,000 bullets from that mold. I still use it in my own revolver.

Ordering from Accurate is straight forward but pay attention to which tolerances you choose.
 
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