Bullet Success/Failures..

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Gentlemen (Laides?)
What bullets have you had success / failures with at what velocities. I shot a moose in the through both front legs with a 180 gr speer RN from a Jungle Carbine, at about 2400 fps at about 40 yards. I saw the moose run into the brush, and all I could see of it was the hips and the line of the two front legs. I though I shot high enough to be in the shoulder, but with two broken legs it was perfectly anchored for a killing shot. The next bullet entirely disbonded on a vertabrae, but of course killed it dead as a stone. I look forward to reading how your lower quality and "premium" bullets worked out for you..
Allen
 
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The old answer to this is 'at what point in the animals death did the bullet fail?'
I've never had an outright failure, I know that, because I've recovered all my animals. However, the early Barnes 30-30 hollow points, were certainly a poor bullet. They shed their petals quickly, and made a 30 caliber exit. To get those deer, required multiple hits. Lever guns are handy for that.
I'm used to bang flops with the 30-30. These bullets delivered bang run.

I understand the bullet has been completely redesigned.
 
I would think at that velocity just about any 180 gr bullet would be fine. The closest I've had to failures were sierra's from my sons 270. Two deer, two blown up bullets, two dead deer found after long tracking exercises. The jackets separated in both cases on the way in without hitting bone. To me they aren't hunting bullets. I went the TSX route for a while on everything but now shoot ballistic tips at deer from my 308, TSX from my 300 Winny at everything bigger or when I have multiple species tags in my pack.
 
I can't say as I've ever had any bullet fail. I've been impressed with the Speer Grand Slams, Nosler Accubonds, Hornady Interbonds and Interlocks all of which were used within their capacity. :)
 
Give a try to Barne's TSX or MRX bullets. Incredible performance and near 100% weight retention. I'm totally sold to them.
 
I'm not quite sure how it failed when it killed the moose "dead as a stone". At close range just about any bullet will come apart on impact with something as substantial as a moose vertabrae. I have shot scores of animals with speer bullets and have always found them to be an exeptional bullet, along with hornady, which is the other main choice for me.

Premium bullets seem to be the rage now, but I'm not sure what, in fact determines a "Premium Bullet", except the price.

In my 300's I have always used Remington Core-loks, which by price, are not a premium bullet. I have three heads on the wall taken with these bullets, so, in my oppinion, they are a premium bullet. These shots were taken from 150 yards to a long long way and where I have recovered them, they retained over 85%.

As far as "lower quality" bullets are concerned. Several years ago when Berger was talking about producing "Hunting" bullets, Walt Berger personally told me his "hunting" bullet would be similar to a Speer or a Hornady design and that in his oppinion " In North America there is no animal that requires a Premium bullet including Alaskan Browns".

So, what is a lower quality bullet? I think possibly sometimes a poor choice of bullet weight can be an issue and then the bullet gets blamed. I would never think of shooting 120's out of my 300, for moose and bears when I know that 180's are a much better choice. Heavy for calibre has always been a reasonable choice although there are those that adhear to the "need for speed" theory.

Anyway, I think that in your case, your bullet choice was wise and you ran into a situation that would have occured with just about any bullet. That being said, you did end up with your moose and life, as they say, is good.
 
ACKLEY ABE said:
In my 300's I have always used Remington Core-loks, which by price, are not a premium bullet. I have three heads on the wall taken with these bullets, so, in my oppinion, they are a premium bullet. These shots were taken from 150 yards to a long long way and where I have recovered them, they retained over 85%.
Click to expand...

The Remington Core-Lokt is a very good bullet. No complaints. Tried the Barnes XLC last year, also very good.
 
First, I'm not a big believer of the claimed advantages of the premium bullets over the old cup and cores. But I tried the Nosler accubonds a few years ago and they shoot so accurately out of several of my guns I have pretty much stuck with them.

The accubonds (140g in a 7mm-08) dont seem to do enough damage for my liking on good vital hits on whitetails (bullet only contacts hide,lungs,and maybe a rib). They still do the job but are constructed a little strong for deer. I guess if you were taking a shot through bone you would appreciate the tougher bullet.

I may try SST's this year for whitetails, they shoot well for me also.

When I run ou of accubonds I will likely go back to the Nosler Partition as I believe its about as good as it gets when it comes to expansion/energy transfer and penetration.
 
I shoot standard cartridges such as the .30-06 , 30-30 or .303. With these I have been pleased with standard bullets such as those in Federal Classic, Remington Core lokts and Hornady Spire points.
I did use Nosler Partitions for a couple elk but am not convinced they did any better.

The only "failures" I have had were with .243 where it seemed I couldn't find a bullet that would not either pencil through or blow up and not give penetration. I tried 100 grainers and 83 grain. In one case a mulie doe was hit perfect broadside lungs. She walked into some brush and then came out the far side. I was told the first shot had been high so aimed lower. Same advice so aimed even lower. When she finally fell over there were bullet holes in the ribs ( first shot) and three others going all the way down the front leg. Sure the first shot killed her but there was absoluely no visible reaction to it or the following shots. This was years ago and both the243's I once owned are long gone.
Today there are more bullet choices so I believe I could find one that would work but right now my other rifles are doing what I want so I ain't going back.
 
Had 2 Nosler Ballistic Tips blow up on deer shoulders at closer ranges, fired from 7mm RM.

Saw a 165gr Ballistic tip from a 300WM end up in the skull of a moose, totally blobbed. Thanks god it hit the brain, and not the shoulder!:runaway:

Seen great sucess with Nosler Accubonds and Partitions, Barnes X and recently, the TSX.
 
I can honestly say to date with about 40 kills on game from deer, bear to moose, I have never had a bullet fail to the point I have failed to recover the animal.

I have had some poor results and mine came from poor shots failure to hit bone or vitals.

Sorry I just can not blame the bullet for that or the cartridge.

Had the poorest results with a 30-30 with 170s, again my fault I could not hit the shoulder when that shot was required.

However, I have never lost an animal to date.

It makes you appreciate teh bang flops, take them when you can get them.

I should say I have used them all, from the Trophy bonder bear claw, $$$ to Nosler parts to the hornady sp interlocks on the cheep end. They all did what they had to.
 
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I would like to add my own opinion about the new bullets.

35-40 years ago hunters were screaming for better bullets that would not fly apart before impact, well engineers gave us this with Nosler Parts and interbonds and speer, and so on with a few, they took it to a new level in the last 10 years offering new bonded technology and solid bullets, that come at a $ high price tag yes, metal is more, and so is the cost of technology

I am not 100% sold on the need for general hunting conditions, but in that one time that I do need thos technology I will be glad to have it loaded in my rifle, when you need to bust that animal down and break both front shoulders, I know I have the bullet for the job, in that rifle and know it will go down.

As for deer hunters, no I agree not needed, in most cases moose as well.

So before we get so involved in the opinions about need or not, that can be argued on both sides of the fence, Its your option to choose what works for you , and you alone.
 
I'm not sure bullets actually fail I think they all work, but they fail only because they were used in a wrong application.

For example hornady interlocks great performer kills game so it works, however IMO they fail because they fragment and destroy meat (deer) like no other bullet i've use.
 
worst I have seen was Sierra 6.5mm 140 grain GameKing BTSP on a mule deer @ 250 yards. 2600 f/s muzzle velocity, approx 2200 f/s impact. Bullet came apart on broadside shot, retained 30% of its weight. Huge major bloodshot, one quarter was garbage.

Pictures727.jpg



a similar placed shot with a 130 gr Barnes TSX at a higher impact velocity

Sept30_05.jpg
 
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I have shot most of my big game animals with a muzzleloader and pure lead projectiles and they all don't go far but two years ago I shot a moose out 240 yards with a 225 gr Hornady Interbond out of my 338 RUM Sendero at a muzzle velocity just under 3000 fps. The animal was quartering away and at a slightly downhill angle and the bullet travelled from the chest and ended up in the neck against the spine where I recovered it. The bullet held together fine retaining over 70 % of its weight and expanding to just over double its original diameter, not bad for one of the cheapest premium bullets out of one of the fastest shooting rifles in that caliber. I also shot some mule deer with that load at about the same range but there were no bullets recovered from them but they did die quickly too.
 
I've lost count on the number of deer I've shot moose I think I could still figure that out with a bit of searching my old pictures. And firearms used are various over the years from 30-30, 303, 308, 7mmRM, 300WM, 25-06. I've only recently (5yrs) gotten into reloading so a lot were taken with various factory ammo. All that to say shot placement is important but I can say I've been very impressed with Nosler Accubonds (200grn loaded up for my 300WM) so much so that I'm switching over to the accubonds for my 25-06 deer gun and 7mmRM backup rifle.

I'll still be using Hornady 174Grn RN in my 303 and 170grn Speer for the 30-30 and a range different projectiles for my various 308 - 7.62x51 but those are not my main go to hunting guns. I'm still using Nosler BTips in the 22-250 and those work fine on yotes.
 
From personal experience:

Two thumbs way up for Winchester Power Point's 180 grain 303 British loading (laugh all you want, everything I ever shot with one died so fast I never learned the art of blood trailing till I took up bow hunting years later). :)

Hornady InterBond's (165 grain 308 caliber) - jury's still out a bit for me - the only critter I ever saw shot with one was a badly hit elk (The Wife(tm) got him in the liver at about 250 yards - 2200FPS impact velocity). The blood trail showed that it bled out both sides, indicating a full pass-through, which kind of surprised me considering my experience with heavier bullets at higher impact velocities on elk. The PowerPoint's above at 2400FPS tend to hang up in the hid on the far side. Anyway, long story short, the elk was mobile enough to run like it wasn't hurt at all come 4 and a half hours later when we jumped it from it's bed. By comparison I made a poor gut/liver shot on a deer once with my bow - it died in 30 minutes. Since it was a poor hit, I've not ruled them out, but my suspicions are aroused.

Sierra ProHunter's (180 grain 303 British). Shot a mule deer last year 3 times in rapid succession at about 30 yards broadside. No bloodshot, exit wounds the same size as the entrance wounds, lungs still inflated when I cut him open, and that the deer ran a LOT farther than I was comfortable with after I shot him. Would never shoot another animal with one of these.

I also have a buddy who swears by plain old 180 grain Hornady SP's. I've seen the post-mortem on several of the animal's he's shot with them (2700-ish FPS impact velocity in most cases), and they seem to work just fine.


For this year, I'm doing 168 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip's at 2550FPS muzzle velocity for The Wife, and I'm shooting 150 grain Nosler AccuBond's at just a hair under 2900FPS for me. I'll let ya'll know how it goes.
 
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What are the Winchester Super X like.$18 bucks at walmart. I have 150gr Noslar Part.. for my 270 but thought I might buy a box of these for half the price, to shoot white tails. Are they worth it?
 
170g Speer from a 30-30 hit the sternum of a whitetail fawn at 60 yards, bullet spun around and I found it lodged in the rear femur just below the ball socket unopened. Front of bullet was actually caved "in" rather than out.


Horndady and Winchester PP have always done exactly what they were designed to do.
 
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