Bullets shaping like hour glass???

[Brianma65]

Ok guys,I'll try explaining again.
My die was not touching the shell holder.


Now,I just loaded a round , using 24 g of Varget which is in the middle of min/max load.

The die was screwed out a couple of turns and set up for seating only.
The bullet distortion still occurred.

So it seems to be from the compressed load.
In case your not familiar with the 69g TMK,it's a long bullet, that compresses,even the min load.

I'm going to try seating a bullet without any powder,and see if the bullet maintains its shape.

And lastly, I like to point out, I've been loading .223,among many others,for 4 years now.
And I know how to set up my dies.
This is the first time I've ever had this problem.

 

[stubblejumper]

I load the 69gr TMK in front of CFE223, and I use the VLD seating plug in Redding dies, and no such issues. I am using Lapua cases. Five shot groups are sub 1/2moa, and no copper fouling.

 

[8 ball]

Ok guys,I'll try explaining again.
snip
I'm going to try seating a bullet without any powder,and see if the bullet maintains its shape.

snip

This. I was just going to suggest this. May just have to use a different powder, or back off on the powder charge enough that it is not compressing so much, and be happy with the lower velocity.

 

[Brianma65]

This. I was just going to suggest this. May just have to use a different powder, or back off on the powder charge enough that it is not compressing so much, and be happy with the lower velocity.

Yes I'm going try an empty case,
Even at min charge,and a COL of 2245, I'm still having the same prob.
From seating only.

Even though I was looking forward to testing the Varget, I'll just switch to the CFE

Also,I'm limited by my mag length (2250)

 

[Why not?]

Ok guys,I'll try explaining again.
My die was not touching the shell holder....

Okay, Brian, thanks for making that clear. Here's where I got the misunderstanding, emphasis in bold is mine:

..... I seat the bullet slowly,following through slowly,until the die hits the shell holder .
How am I pushing to hard?

I've loaded 75 test loads of Hornady 53 Vmax, right before these,and didn't have that issue.

I think the problem may be the shape of the bullet seater itself.

Why don't you remove it from the die and see how the bullet tip fits the seater? I had a similar problem loading a 25 Durham Jet many years ago. The seating die compressed the nose of one make of bullets, but not the other. The answer to that one was using a denser powder that allowed loading without compression.

Interesting stuff,
Ted

 

[Brianma65]

Okay, Brian, thanks for making that clear. Here's where I got the misunderstanding, emphasis in bold is mine:



I think the problem may be the shape of the bullet seater itself.

Why don't you remove it from the die and see how the bullet tip fits the seater? I had a similar problem loading a 25 Durham Jet many years ago. The seating die compressed the nose of one make of bullets, but not the other. The answer to that one was using a denser powder that allowed loading without compression.

Interesting stuff,
Ted

Yes ,I did say that Ted.
But after, I did a closer inspection and the die is about a mm away from the shellholder.

 

[Why not?]

Roger that. i would try setting the die at least one full turn off an empty case with the ram all the way to the top, as explained in my post above. That way you will be assured their is no crimping action going on. Has always worked for me.

Your empty case test will eliminate the compressed powder possibility, for sure.

You are getting this sorted out!
Ted

 

[Brianma65]

Well, I think I figured it out.
I seated a bullet into a charged case,24 g Varget, to a col of 2245.And it was distorted.

I then seated a bullet into an empty case,without touching the die. The col was 2230.
So the powder was stopping the bullet from being seated all the way.

The bullet measures .987.
.450 is seated into the case.
The Varget fills the case ,up to where the shoulder ends,
Leaving .184 of empty case .

That's leaves me with .266 of the bullet trying be seated into the powder.

So ,I think ,because the Varget fils the case,even at min load,and the bullets being so long.
Is causing a lot of pressure on the seater,causing the distortion.

Is that in a book anywhere?

 

[hoytcanon]

Well, I think I figured it out.
I seated a bullet into a charged case,24 g Varget, to a col of 2245.And it was distorted.

I then seated a bullet into an empty case,without touching the die. The col was 2230.
So the powder was stopping the bullet from being seated all the way.

Glad "you" figured it out...

I'm speculating that this is a MEGA compressed load (110%+?)

You have too much powder in the brass for that 69gr TMK. It is a longer bullet than a 55gr FMJ-BT. The Varget powder can only compress so mucch.

Too much powder!

As I suspected, this is WAY TO MUCH POWDER @ 121% COMPRESSED!

It sounds like you are compressing the powder charge and the resistance is more than the light jacketed bullets can take.

Glad "you" figured it out...

 

[Brianma65]

Glad "you" figured it out...


In case your not familiar with Varget, it's normal to have a compressed load.
And in case your not familiar with 69 TMK, they're a long bullet.

Why would I suspect a min load of Varget,would have to much compression.

The longgg bullet was compressing the min load of Varget.

This wouldn't be an issue,with most bullet:Varget reloads.


If sh!theads,like you,wouldn't clog up these threads,with your useless insults,
Things would move along much more smoothly

Have a nice evening.

 

[hoytcanon]

Glad "you" figured it out...


In case your not familiar with Varget, it's normal to have a compressed load.
And in case your not familiar with 69 TMK, they're a long bullet.

Why would I suspect a min load of Varget,would have to much compression.

The longgg bullet was compressing the min load of Varget.

This wouldn't be an issue,with most bullet:Varget reloads.


If sh!theads,like you,wouldn't clog up these threads,with your useless insults,
Things would move along much more smoothly

Have a nice evening.

If you listened to the advice you asked for, this thread would have been four posts long... but with your vast experience, you know better... you should have just answered your own question... then the thread would have been one post long.

 

[Brianma65]

If you listened to the advice you asked for, this thread would have been four posts long... but with your vast experience, you know better... you should have just answered your own question... then the thread would have been one post long.

I disagree,
Why would I assume it's the powder?
I've never had that issue before.

Sierra sent me load data for that bullet/powder combo.

Sure , guys got it right with to much compression.

But Varget compresses, so at min load,it shouldn't be a problem.
The bullet was part of the problem,being so long.

It could have been the die as well.
Or the case .

In any event, it's a forum ,on the internet.
Used for asking questions,socializing,talking about guns,etc.

And that's what I did.

So my thoughts are ,why did you even reply, if you had nothing constructive to add.

And yes,I'm sure I could have figured it out,eventually.
But ,hey, I like the forum better

 

[DiabeticKripple]

I had a similar issue when I was seating Varmint grenades over Varget. The thin jacket and hollow cavity caused the bullet to deform when the load was compressed.

 

[Brianma65]

I know there's a lot to learn, that's why I always follow manufacturers instructions.

With the 69 TMK, being new to the market,data was hard to find.

So I emailed Sierra,and they provided me with reload data.

Well,you know the rest.

I have CFE and Benchmark,so I'll try those.

All in all,it's just another lesson learned.

 

[Ganderite]

When the AMax bullet came out, my seater crushed the plastic tip. I drilled a hole into the face of the seater so that the rim of the seater contacted the bullet farther down on the shoulder and the tip did not get touched. later production seaters were made this way.

I have not tried the new Sierra. Maybe the seater needs a mod?

 

[Brianma65]

When the AMax bullet came out, my seater crushed the plastic tip. I drilled a hole into the face of the seater so that the rim of the seater contacted the bullet farther down on the shoulder and the tip did not get touched. later production seaters were made this way.

I have not tried the new Sierra. Maybe the seater needs a mod?

I don't think that'll work ganderite, it's the Varget,it fills to much of the case.
And a combo of the long TMK and my magazine length.

I'm getting way to much compression at 2245.

Even at the suggested start load,from Sierra, they were distorting,from so much compression.

They would probably work well for a bolt gun,with a longer magazine COL. (Varget)

I'm going to move on to CFE,

 

[stubblejumper]

Even a drop tube may have made a huge difference .

 

[hoytcanon]

I'm getting way to much compression at 2245.

What the heck is "2245"... are you trying to say 2.245"???

Is that how the kool kids are saying it these days?

 

[Brianma65]

What the heck is "2245"... are you trying to say 2.245"???

Is that how the kool kids are saying it these days?

Lol, you got it didn't you.
You need to take some Valium dude

 

[hoytcanon]

Lol, you got it didn't you.
You need to take some Valium dude

You need to learn what a decimal point is.