Burned Powder on Outside of Case

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Sask/AB hunter

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I went shooting last night and have been working on some loads for new rifle. As I am working up through the loads I notice that one group of the loads left burned powder on the outside of the case, almost all the way to the base of the case. The loads above and below did not have the same result. Any ideas on what caused this to happen in the middle of the load development. Nothing else was different except for the powder load.

Thanks
 
I believe, and will be corrected if wrong, the load is too soft to expand the case, so blow back happens getting black soot on the sides of the case, and can get stuff coming back into face depending on rifle. I have this with a 44.40 at the moment really poor loads, shooting off in rifle, and I get stuff powder etc coming back.
 
this is true, i only load for pistols but the same concept applies, when i have to light of a powder charge the mouth of the brass is dirty, i up the charge by .1-.2 grains and it cleans up
 
Sask/AB hunter said:
I went shooting last night and have been working on some loads for new rifle. As I am working up through the loads I notice that one group of the loads left burned powder on the outside of the case, almost all the way to the base of the case. The loads above and below did not have the same result. Any ideas on what caused this to happen in the middle of the load development. Nothing else was different except for the powder load.

Thanks
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This is definitely a situation where your rilfe does not like this load combo. You have not achieved sufficient case expansion to completely obturate (seal) the chamber from the barrel and gases have leaked back, leaving residue on the case. Because most of the case is affected, you may also have had some gas leakage out of the rifle, but probably would not have noticed it. Depending on the rifle, such gases are bled off in different areas or directions and all AWAY from the shooter.
More than likely no worries here, but definitley stay away from that load.
Things I would look for are:
Was that particular brass new or worked previously? How many times? Was it mixed up with any other brass processed differently or in a separate session? If those cases were sorked more, they would be harder, less elastic and therefore would not expand as well as the others. However; the actual chances of 5 pieces of brass being different (different properties) and lining up with the 5 rounds that gave you trouble are astronomical but things to think about for next time.
 
I find low pressure only causes this when dealing with very low pressures like cast bullet loads or subsonic loads. This most commonly happens with regular rifle loads when the brass work hardens too much from too many firings and wont expand anymore without insane overpressure. Annealing your brass should get rid of the problem.

I find with most bottleneck calibres I need to anneal every 3-5 firings to avoid this problem.
 
I've had this problem recently on some 7.62x54r loads. I was thinking low pressure but I've been using this load for awhile now and just recently had problems.

I found that the reason was my neck tension on my brass was a little loose so the bullets were leaving the case too quickly cause the brass not to expand all the way. I put a slight crimp on the brass to give the pressure a little longer time to build before the bullet leaves the case. Fixed it right away.

Also a light load with either weak primers or primers that don't flash hot enough can cause a similar issue with low pressure and soot on the case.
 
Lutnit
Brass is the same, fired the same number of times.

It must have been something I did while seating the bullet. I am using WLR primers so there should be no problem getting a good burn started. Flash holes were all clean. The brass was all prepped together and I then randomly select primed cases to load.
I am puzzled...
 
Sask/AB hunter said:
Lutnit
Brass is the same, fired the same number of times.

It must have been something I did while seating the bullet. I am using WLR primers so there should be no problem getting a good burn started. Flash holes were all clean. The brass was all prepped together and I then randomly select primed cases to load.
I am puzzled...
Click to expand...

My friend, the majority of the people that replied to you, gave you the answer of why you had unburned powder on your cases.
Not enough pressure in your loads to seal the case to the chamber.
Period.
End of the story.
 
H4831 said:
My friend, the majority of the people that replied to you, gave you the answer of why you had unburned powder on your cases.
Not enough pressure in your loads to seal the case to the chamber.
Period.
End of the story.
Click to expand...

Your reply was a little short and cranky H4831, a alien space craft hovering over his house could have disrupted the magnetic field around his scales and thrown off that particular load. :rolleyes:

All joking aside in the middle of his load development the chamber pressure took a nose dive which should not of happened. I'm going to guess his scales were bumped or set too low for that string of shots.

I'm also going to guess that you over dried your underwear in the dryer and its making you a little cranky.

I for one would have liked to find out what type of scales the OP has, if he drinks too much coffee and if his hands shake or if he had dirt on his glasses.

Signed
Smiling Ed

P.S. There is a chance the duct tape is loose on his press and he under torqued that load. :D

 
bigedp51 said:
Your reply was a little short and cranky H4831, a alien space craft hovering over his house could have disrupted the magnetic field around his scales and thrown off that particular load. :rolleyes:

All joking aside in the middle of his load development the chamber pressure took a nose dive which should not of happened. I'm going to guess his scales were bumped or set too low for that string of shots.

I'm also going to guess that you over dried your underwear in the dryer and its making you a little cranky.

I for one would have liked to find out what type of scales the OP has, if he drinks too much coffee and if his hands shake or if he had dirt on his glasses.

Signed
Smiling Ed

P.S. There is a chance the duct tape is loose on his press and he under torqued that load. :D

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Thank you so much for analysing my inner thoughts. Usually, I have to pay a professional shrink for such service!
However, had you spent as much time in analysing the question the OP asked, as you did to my answer, your post may have made more sense.
In the original post the OP asked why there was unburned powder on the outside of some of his cases.
Several writers correctly told him why the unburned powder was there was because of lack of sufficient pressure in the case to expand the case enough to make it seal the gas from the chamber.
In his next post he made no note of all these correct answers, but still wondered why it happened.
My answer was meant to leave no doubt in his mind as to why there was unburned powder on the outside of his cases.
Apparently, I was successful, because in his next posting he thanked those who had helped him!
Had the OP asked the question of why there was not enough pressure to seal the chamber, I would have given him an answer, which would have been far more logical than the various excuses you answered to, while you were assuming he asked such question.
I would have answered that a logical reason only some of the apparently equally loaded cartridges failed to seal, was because the brass on those that failed was likely a bit harder, probably due to more firings without being annealed, than the rest of the cases.
In any event, the procedure the OP should take is to put more powder in the case, or to use a faster powder.
Annealing all the brass may solve the immediate problem, but that would only be solving the symptoms not the cause of the problem.
 
H4831 said:
Thank you so much for analysing my inner thoughts. Usually, I have to pay a professional shrink for such service!
However, had you spent as much time in analysing the question the OP asked, as you did to my answer, your post may have made more sense.
Click to expand...

I was wrong, your putting starch on your underwear and have indigestion from eating Mexican food.

Sask/AB hunter said:
I went shooting last night and have been working on some loads for new rifle. As I am working up through the loads I notice that one group of the loads left burned powder on the outside of the case, almost all the way to the base of the case. The loads above and below did not have the same result. Any ideas on what caused this to happen in the middle of the load development. Nothing else was different except for the powder load.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Sask/AB hunter said:
The low pressure makes sense for the cartridge not expanding. The catch though, why did it not do this on the two loads under it. I was increasing by 0.5 gr so the starting load was a full grain lighter.
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After "analysing" the OP posting in the "middle" of a work up load the OP has low pressure signs, not the lower pressure starting load. This indicates some sort of loading error and under charged cases.

You may send the check for my services to Big Ed's Psychiatric and Reload Clinic. ;)
 
Last edited:
"...low pressure makes sense..." You using a load that is below minimum? Starting loads will not have pressures too low to expand the case.
 
sunray said:
"...low pressure makes sense..." You using a load that is below minimum? Starting loads will not have pressures too low to expand the case.
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How many reading impaired people are replying to this posting "sunray", the OP was in the middle of load testing and didn't have powder residue on the outside of the first and second string of fired cases.

I was hoping to get some good logical responses, instead we are getting some off the wall comments by people who didn't READ to OP postings of "WHY" it happened in the "MIDDLE" of load development and not the start load.

I was hoping he would come back here and admit his girlfriend stuck her hand down his pants when he was reloading and distracted him when he was setting his scale weight. BUT no we keep having people come back with the brilliant answer "your pressure was too low". The OP knows the "WHY" about low pressure and residue on the outside of cases, the OP wants to know "HOW" it happened in the MIDDLE of load development.
 
bigedp51 said:
How many reading impaired people are replying to this posting "sunray", the OP was in the middle of load testing and didn't have powder residue on the outside of the first and second string of fired cases.

I was hoping to get some good logical responses, instead we are getting some off the wall comments by people who didn't READ to OP postings of "WHY" it happened in the "MIDDLE" of load development and not the start load.

I was hoping he would come back here and admit his girlfriend stuck her hand down his pants when he was reloading and distracted him when he was setting his scale weight. BUT no we keep having people come back with the brilliant answer "your pressure was too low". The OP knows the "WHY" about low pressure and residue on the outside of cases, the OP wants to know "HOW" it happened in the MIDDLE of load development.
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And you have the audacity to call others "Cranky"?? :) ;) The nerve of some people, lol.
Eagleye.
 
Eagleye said:
And you have the audacity to call others "Cranky"?? :) ;) The nerve of some people, lol.
Eagleye.
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Ed is right though, way too often people don't read the OP's full post and then start typing away. Might I add that bigedp51 posts some of the most useful and well written info on this forum. If he wants to rant, let him he's earned the right!

Steve
 
Tinman204 said:
Ed is right though, way too often people don't read the OP's full post and then start typing away. Might I add that bigedp51 posts some of the most useful and well written info on this forum. If he wants to rant, let him he's earned the right!

Steve
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So H4831 doesn't have the right to say his piece? I bet he has more "real world" experience
than 90% of the posters on here, me included. lol.
In all fairness to bigedp51, his posts are usually informative.
As for you, Steve, did you notice the smilies at the end of my statement? You should look again.
Regards, Dave.
 
This went sideways quick!
I agree with all that posted the pressure was not sufficient to expand the case and seal properly. My mystery is why in the middle of the work up. I was using the Nosler load data starting from the bottom and working up.
Bigedp51, you may be correct that I screwed up the powder measure during that group. Not sure though because I am pretty particular about watching the scale and making sure the load is weighed correct.
The caliber is 223 wssm, winchester cases already fire formed to that rifle, WLR primers, H4895 powder, seating 45 gr Sierra Varmint rounds.
 
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