Hi guys, so I bought 6.5 creedmoor. I was wondering if it is worth buying the bushing dies? I will probably go with redding dies. I was going to buy the 3 dies set, non bushing which comes with full, neck sizing dies and seater. Then I started looking at the bushing dies? Thoughts? Also I bought some lapua brass which is a small rifle primer. Are guys using the standard shell holder in the press? And does the number 12 shell holder work on the lee auto primer?? Thx
Bushing dies
- Thread starter shotgun64
- Start date
Just but a Redding Type S die with the bushing that you need plus another .001" bigger and one .001" smaller. The way I see it, if you buy a universal depriming die, that just means one extra time that you have to cycle your press for each piece of brass. One extra time handling your brass, extra time etc. By the time I anneal, resize, trim, weight sort, prime, throw and weigh each powder charge and seat the bullet, I am just about sick of looking at my brass.
That being said I already have most of my competition brass loaded for this year (only a couple hundred more to go), plus I have another 1000 Lapua cases, annealed, resized, trimmed and weight sorted and in MTM boxes ready for next year.
I guess I just don't see the point in using a $100+ bushing die if you are not going to use it properly and neck turn...that is one of the steps in the instructions is it not?
The reason neck turning is required is there isn't a manufacturer out there that can produce a lot of brass with consistent neck thickness. A bushing die just squeezes the necks down, so if one side of the neck is 17 thou, and the other 13 thou, you have an off center neck. If one neck is consistent at 17 thou, and the next is 13 thou you can have nice centered cases but varied tension is introduced.
If you don't neck turn, then you have a better chance of getting concentric, consistent ammo with a standard neck sizing die since they use an expander ball for the final sizing so neck thickness can vary some and it makes little difference. Yes you can get bushing dies with expanders, but there is no benefit as they operate the same as a standard neck sizing die so you are just paying twice the price for nothing....
2 cents.
The reason neck turning is required is there isn't a manufacturer out there that can produce a lot of brass with consistent neck thickness. A bushing die just squeezes the necks down, so if one side of the neck is 17 thou, and the other 13 thou, you have an off center neck. If one neck is consistent at 17 thou, and the next is 13 thou you can have nice centered cases but varied tension is introduced.
If you don't neck turn, then you have a better chance of getting concentric, consistent ammo with a standard neck sizing die since they use an expander ball for the final sizing so neck thickness can vary some and it makes little difference. Yes you can get bushing dies with expanders, but there is no benefit as they operate the same as a standard neck sizing die so you are just paying twice the price for nothing....
2 cents.
Redding bushing dies come with a expander for those who do not neck turn and make the inside of the neck uniform.
The problem with bushing dies is when the neck is reduced .004 or more it can induce neck runout. Remember the bushing floats and can move from side to side and even tilt when sizing. Bushing dies work best with custom tight neck chambers where the neck diameter is reduced less than .004.
At the Whidden custom die website they tell you they get the most concentric cases with non-bushing full length dies. And Whidden also sells expander kits with five expanders from bullet diameter to .004 under bullet diameter.
I get the most concentric cases with very low neck runout using Forster full length benchrest dies with their high mounted floating expanders. And using standard dies with expanders are not the end of the world. And your chamber and dies governs how much your cases will expand and then be reduced in size.
Below a standard full length non-bushing Redding sizing die equipped with a Forster high mounted expander and spindle assembly. This greatly reduces neck runout and the amount of drag the standard Redding expander has inside the case neck.
Are Your Sizing Dies Overworking Your Rifle Brass?
http://www.massreloading.com/dies_overworking_brass.html
FL Bushing Dies vs. Honed FL Dies
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/fl-bushing-dies-vs-honed-fl-dies/
The problem with bushing dies is when the neck is reduced .004 or more it can induce neck runout. Remember the bushing floats and can move from side to side and even tilt when sizing. Bushing dies work best with custom tight neck chambers where the neck diameter is reduced less than .004.
At the Whidden custom die website they tell you they get the most concentric cases with non-bushing full length dies. And Whidden also sells expander kits with five expanders from bullet diameter to .004 under bullet diameter.
I get the most concentric cases with very low neck runout using Forster full length benchrest dies with their high mounted floating expanders. And using standard dies with expanders are not the end of the world. And your chamber and dies governs how much your cases will expand and then be reduced in size.
Below a standard full length non-bushing Redding sizing die equipped with a Forster high mounted expander and spindle assembly. This greatly reduces neck runout and the amount of drag the standard Redding expander has inside the case neck.
Are Your Sizing Dies Overworking Your Rifle Brass?
http://www.massreloading.com/dies_overworking_brass.html
FL Bushing Dies vs. Honed FL Dies
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/fl-bushing-dies-vs-honed-fl-dies/
From the "overworking your brass" article:
If overworked necks is a concern, annealing solves that better then a bushing die with expander. Hell even a $20 Lee collet die sizes less then a bushing with expander. I just don't see any use at all for a bushing die with expander especially at the high costs. It's not doing anything different from a standard neck die or even a Lee collet die. If you turn necks and remove the expander yes...you get more control over neck tension and concentricity, and it opens up more options to experiment with ie 1,2,3etc thou tension, keeping tension consistent as brass work hardens, those are benefits.
But to just use it with an expander makes no sense to me...
Redding has tapered expanders now as replacement BTW...no need for those crazy long ones they come with.
That's my experience as well. Primer pockets give up long before any neck splitting. Usually with milder loads and quality brass it's not an issue to get 15+ loads using standard neck dies. At 10 loadings I don't feel the brass owes me anything anymore and usually recycle, or load one last time for a semi where it will get left in the bush lol.
If overworked necks is a concern, annealing solves that better then a bushing die with expander. Hell even a $20 Lee collet die sizes less then a bushing with expander. I just don't see any use at all for a bushing die with expander especially at the high costs. It's not doing anything different from a standard neck die or even a Lee collet die. If you turn necks and remove the expander yes...you get more control over neck tension and concentricity, and it opens up more options to experiment with ie 1,2,3etc thou tension, keeping tension consistent as brass work hardens, those are benefits.
But to just use it with an expander makes no sense to me...
Redding has tapered expanders now as replacement BTW...no need for those crazy long ones they come with.
Thanks guys, just ordered a Forster ultra micrometer seating die and a standard Forster FL die. I will buy a neck size die as well not sure which one yet. Forster said their new decamping pins in 6.5 creed all fit the 1.5 mm flash hole. Forster makes a neck bump die kit that comes with 3 bushings for 6.5 but I could not Find one yet in Canada.
