Bushmaster ACR: Reliable??

[Gundoggy]

I've read all kinds of conflicting reports on the reliability of the ACR. Guess we'll know for sure a year from now. Any one know people in the US with experience on how good/bad this gun is??

 

[Questar]

I've read all kinds of conflicting reports on the reliability of the ACR. Guess we'll know for sure a year from now. Any one know people in the US with experience on how good/bad this gun is??

I have one of our non-restricted 18.7" barrel "test" guns that we've been shooting on and off for almost a year now and we have experienced no issues with that gun since we started.

Don't know if that's typical but that's been our experience so far.

Mark

 

[Gundoggy]

Mark, does the ACR function reliably when in prone position with the magazine touching/forced into the ground??

 

[Questar]

Mark, does the ACR function reliably when in prone position with the magazine touching/forced into the ground??

I honestly don't recall... not something I do all that much. Most of our testing was done either benched or off hand.

Mark

 

[Dick Proenneke]

How accurate are the new 18.7" barrels on the ACR platform?

 

[Questar]

How accurate are the new 18.7" barrels on the ACR platform?

We were quite please with the performance we were getting but I'll leave it for the end-users to post their findings. Each person's experience will likely be different and there are lots of variables (ammo, optics, user's ability, etc.).

The manufacturer who produced those barrels for us has a VERY good reputation for producing high end match grade competition barrels... these are not low end barrels.

Mark

 

[Raytheon]

I picked up a magazine called Surefire Combat Tactics Summer 2011. It has an article called "Missing in Action" on the ACR.

Given this is a magazine article and I have no experience with an ACR I would take all of the information with an open mind and a grain of salt.

Overall the magazine was quite negative about the ACR. I will quote parts of the article.

The result was a camel, a horse designed by committee. According to Travis Haley, CEO of Magpul, the resulting ACR emerged as so unreliable that he was disgusted. He reported 23 malfunctions out of 65 rounds on one test. In another test at the Remington factory, he dropped prone, intentionally hitting the magazine on the ground, and fired one round. Jam.

"That's unacceptable," the former Recon Marine said. "A rifle must fire with the magazine resting on the ground." Remington ignored his input, he said.

The twist on the .223 is 1:9, right hand with six lands and grooves. Eyebrows were raised when the ACR ignored the military spec of a 1:7 twist, but the decision was based on customer feedback, according to Ryan Smith, product manager of the ACR at Bushmaster. "We don't believe people want a 1:7 twist anyway," he said.

The barrel is cold hammer forged from 4150 chrome-moly vanadium steel. It is not, repeat: not chrome lined. Instead, the barrel has been treated with a Melonite TM coating process. A quick Google trip to Burlington Engineering revealed that the Melonite process is a "high wear resistant" coating.

They tested three ACRs, one basic and two enhanced models.

To give the ACR every benefit, a Leupold Mk IV fixed 16x scope was mounted from rifle to rifle and after re-zeroing to "get on paper" each rifle was allowed a five shot group of generic 55 grain ball and Federal 55 grain JSP LE load.

Rifle one, basic model turned in a group about 4 inches at 100 yards.

Rifle two, first of the enhanced models, didn't appear to be much better. The first round hit near the zero, but the second shot was off the paper. So was the third. Or was it? Squinting harder into a 45x spotting scope, the first shot-hole looked somewhat elongated. Could it be...?

The last two shots struck precariously close to the first kidney-shaped hole. Racing downrange to the target it was discovered that the first three shots were proverbial "stacked BBs," one on top of the other. The final two shots were slightly out, but the five of them together covered less than a square inch. This is by the way with a Federal 55 grain JSP load.

Switching to ball, the group opened up to about 2 or 3 inches.

Now came the rubber match, with the third ACR stepping to the line. The Federal group was also exceptional for a service rifle, right at 3 inches, with three shots quite close and two the opened the group.

The conclusion after shooting three ACRs was that the gun is obviously capable of shooting. We experienced no sudden full-auto fire with any of of the three ACRs.

The big-time Wall Street boys at Cerberus Capital who bought Remington and Bushmaster and formed The Freedom Group as an umbrella over their gun companies are going to find that GOTARs (Guns Other Than ARs) are a tough sell in any economy, but especially now and especially at the $3000 mark. Of course Cerberus Capital has not been hitting home runs here of late. They paid $7.4 billion for Chrysler and sold it for $1.4 billion.

Someone I don't think they'll make it up on the ACR.

With the new match grade barrels by Questar I think it would shoot better. Reliability, I have no clue. Too new to tell. Was Travis Haley using a early production or prototype model? It doesn't say. A real independent test over time and hard use will really tell what the rifle is made of.

 

[blaxsun]

The result was a camel, a horse designed by committee.

Kind of ironic, seeing as how this is essentially the production version of the Masada (designed entirely by Magpul). I still don't understand why Magpul entered into an agreement with Bushmaster to produce the ACR, but obviously they lacked certain capabilities to manufacture it themselves.

The twist on the .223 is 1:9, right hand with six lands and grooves.

No argument there, but fortunately Questar came through for us with the match-grade 1:8.

The conclusion after shooting three ACRs was that the gun is obviously capable of shooting.

I'd say this speaks volumes more than anything else. Quality, durability and reliability are things which seem to vary quite a bit in opinion, so we're probably on our own...

 

[Raytheon]

Kind of ironic, seeing as how this is essentially the production version of the Masada (designed entirely by Magpul). I still don't understand why Magpul entered into an agreement with Bushmaster to produce the ACR, but obviously they lacked certain capabilities to manufacture it themselves.

I agree. But I remember Magpul stating that they did not have the metal working experience and expertise at least initially to develop an efficient production rifle. I think Magpul knows what a mistake it was to go into the agreement but at the time seemed like the best option with the experience of Remington and Bushmaster. I suspect interference from Cerberus Capital.

No argument there, but fortunately Questar came through for us with the match-grade 1:8.

Best news about the ACR right now! Get a better barrel and non-restricted! Way to go Questar!

I'd say this speaks volumes more than anything else. Quality, durability and reliability are things which seem to vary quite a bit in opinion, so we're probably on our own...

I'm always a bit skeptical about the newer rifles. The M1A/M14, 1911 and AR15 really are old technology but generally proven. This only can happen through time and use however. Consider how many improvements have happened to all three just in the last twenty years. I am of the opinion that all of the newest generation of rifles (eg. ACR, SCAR, XCR, Tavor, ACR, RFB) will all need to go through years of testing and refinement until they reach their full potential. The SCAR somewhat less because it borrows already from a proven system.

We didn't get Noveske AR barrels until the 2000s. It will take probably less and but still years of time behind each gun before gunsmiths and builders figure all of the quirks of each type of firearm and come up with modifications and will later be considered necessary.

 

[blaxsun]

I agree. But I remember Magpul stating that they did not have the metal working experience and expertise at least initially to develop an efficient production rifle. I think Magpul knows what a mistake it was to go into the agreement but at the time seemed like the best option with the experience of Remington and Bushmaster. I suspect interference from Cerberus Capital.

I think there's a difference between designing a few one-off prototypes and tooling up for an entire production line, too. The Masada was never in civilian hands as far as I'm aware, so we don't really know what (if any) "teething" issues it had, either.

I'm always a bit skeptical about the newer rifles. The M1A/M14, 1911 and AR15 really are old technology but generally proven. This only can happen through time and use however. Consider how many improvements have happened to all three just in the last twenty years. I am of the opinion that all of the newest generation of rifles (eg. ACR, SCAR, XCR, Tavor, ACR, RFB) will all need to go through years of testing and refinement until they reach their full potential. The SCAR somewhat less because it borrows already from a proven system.

Yes, although I think the X95 has already succeeded the Tavor to some extent. And the ACR/SCAR aren't necessarily replacing the AR; rather, I think they'll augment it (at least for the foreseeable future). The XCR is somewhat of a "wannabe" in this group, IMHO.

We didn't get Noveske AR barrels until the 2000s. It will take probably less and but still years of time behind each gun before gunsmiths and builders figure all of the quirks of each type of firearm and come up with modifications and will later be considered necessary.

And after-market piston and quick-release systems so we don't have to depend on the whim of Bushmaster...

 

[beltfed]

....seemed like the best option with the experience of Remington and Bushmaster. I suspect interference from Cerberus Capital.

How or why would a Capitol management company interfer directly with product design? Considering Remington could #### up free beer, I think the possibility of this being true is highly unlikely.

..We didn't get Noveske AR barrels until the 2000s. It will take probably less and but still years of time behind each gun before gunsmiths and builders figure all of the quirks of each type of firearm and come up with modifications and will later be considered necessary.

Hate to break it to you, but Noveski's stuff is 'boutique'. There are better, cheaper options, and have been for a number of years before they were around...

 

[Raytheon]

How or why would a Capitol management company interfer directly with product design? Considering Remington could f**k up free beer, I think the possibility of this being true is highly unlikely.

If Remington can mess up free beer anything is possible . I feel that Cerberus Capital through the Freedom Group has been on a bad run recently and might have put more pressure on the project. Considering the size of the investment and want of return especially given the ACR had major hype and marketing. However, Cerberus Capital and Freedom Group also have a bad track record of buying and downsizing businesses including closing a Bushmaster and Marlin factory. I'm not sure but it is possible the downsizing could have affected the ACR.

Hate to break it to you, but Noveski's stuff is 'boutique'. There are better, cheaper options, and have been for a number of years before they were around...

I agree the Noveske is boutique, however the statement was meant as an example of how people are still refining and improving on older designs. The modern AR15 has evolved significantly from what it was twenty years ago especially considering it was first used during the Vietnam War.