Bushnell warranty

*MALICE* said:
IIRC, things like red dot sights, illuminated reticles, laser range finders, bore sighters don't have a lifetime warranty. I think it's only a year or something like that. But I've witnessed quite substantial discounts on replacement of the above items when you take them in and they are out of warranty.


Trophy, 3500 (3200), 4500 (4200), 6500 (6200), elite, tactical, ar, ak are all Lifetime Warranty as I recall. Just don't walk in with a broken scope in one hand and a baseball bat in the other ;)

I had a 3200 that had been on a .50BMG for years with no problems. Switched it to a .223, it worked for 2 weeks before it bit the dust.
Took it into the warranty center. They inspected it, determined a seal had failed and a component had corroded due to moisture (*shrugs* sounds plausible I guess). I got a new 3500 with a feature that I liked more than the one I brought in, no questions asked, in/out in 20 minutes, would have been faster but there were 2 people ahead of me (Serengetti sunglasses/golf laser range finder).
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Correct about electronics only being one year, even leupold does this. Vortex has lifetime on everything including these devices...no one else does this that i'm aware of.
 
Recce21 said:
All Leupold parts of a scope are made in house at Beaverton, Oregon including the main tubes. The glass and reticles are manufactured in Germany specifically for Leupold and then polished and coated by Leupold. They don't outsource parts
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Do you have evidence or proof to back that up?

st1264 said:
Not everyone can afford Nightforce or Swarovski... but I'm willing to bet most of the glass in the entire industry is outsourced (save a few high end companies in Europe) and that Leupold VX-1 and Bushnell Elite 3500 is at pretty well the same level. Probably made for $50 of aluminum and glass and the rest is markup. Vortex being assembled in China as well gives them an even bigger advantage, I would think.

I have some Carl Zeiss 35mm film lenses from the 70's, excellent glass, made in Japan back then. Film lenses are almost worthless in the present.
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Glass is one component, outsourcing internals is likely more detrimental than lower quality glass.
 
Kidd X said:
Paying more does not always mean getting more. Bushnell like Vortex and some others simply price their wares similar to better quality known brands in hopes people will believe the price reflects quality when in reality it does not. Every brand has had a lemon and your Swaro issue should be sent back and repaired properly. If you buy quality stuff then a repaired item is of no concern. The belief that a new item vs a repaired old item is "better" has spawned from low quality junk being offered and the consumer subconsciously knowing that even repaired the item is still worn and untrustworthy.
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I will agree that we have become a throw away society however I have had great luck with Bushnell right back to the B&L days. I have even used the Trophy models with out a single issue when money was tight. I think the average Joe that wants to go out and shoot a deer or two should be able to put a reliable scope on his rifle without breaking the bank and a Bushnell does just that. I don't understand what "pricing their wares similar to better quality brands in hopes people will believe the price reflects quality" means. I use the Elite 3200s and they are much less expensive than anything comparable.
 
I have been looking at Bushnell scopes. I would have bought one, but i wanted a bdc, and they didn't or don't jave that in a 3500. I was very impressed with the quality of glass and the warranty. It was explained to me by a rep that they do an exchange program with their scopes so as not to inconvenience a customer and have them without a scope for a month. It has nothing to do with the scopes being disposable. Another plus is the fact that their mid level scopes are made in Japan. Personally, i think this is preferable to many other countries of origin in regards to quality, and worker rights. I haven't seen much come out of Japan that hasn't been impeccable. Mount one on a Howa, and you'd have an all Japanese set up. The country is known for its high quality glass and steel
 
Kidd X said:
Do you have evidence or proof to back that up?



Glass is one component, outsourcing internals is likely more detrimental than lower quality glass.
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Just being inside the plant myself and seeing everything being machined and assembled. No cameras allowed but there are probably videos released for marketing or ads where they allowed filming.
 
Recce21 said:
Well I'll be damned. I guess the Chinese make fake labels and shipping documents then as well. It's German glass.
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Let's see these shipping labels and concrete proof from the glass packaging at the factory to support your claim.

I don't really care, but it's obvious that you do.

Wherever the glass and/or other components are from, Leupold admits that there is outsourcing, especially the Glass. Higher end glass may be from Europe or Asia, lower end models most likely from Asia.

Like I said, my $300 pair of eyeglasses and my $40 one are of the same quality, clarity and have the same coatings. I'm sure the ones I had made in Windsor, ON came straight from China as well. Insurance is paying and someone is getting rich.
 
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Recce21 said:
Just being inside the plant myself and seeing everything being machined and assembled. No cameras allowed but there are probably videos released for marketing or ads where they allowed filming.
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Well this is from Leupold's website.

Leupold uses foreign sourced components for some parts of Golden Ring products, primarily lenses. This is because at this time, there is no American manufacturer that can supply the quantity of high quality lenses that Leupold needs for its annual Golden Ring Optics production. Leupold’s lens systems are designed at Leupold, by American optical engineers, in its state-of -the-art optics lab and then procured from outside vendors who must meet stringent quality standards.

Incoming parts are carefully inspected in our testing facility before they are accepted into the assembly process. Incidentally, all major optics producers worldwide acquire some or all of their glass from the same sources as Leupold. Some of these sources are located domestically, some are European, and some are Asian. Leupold has acquired its lenses this way for over 50 years.

So primarily the lenses which means other components are also sourced from outside the good old USA. If all their components were from Europe or Japan they would advertise that as both offer quality components. The fact they won't tell you what comes from where is called a clue.. I think I mentioned this before but glass is only ONE aspect of an optic. Reliable and repeatable turrets are far more important than having the absolute best glass. We already know that Leupold(pronounced Loo- pold) oursources more than just lenses which means internals, the very heart of reliable repeatable optics. You pay big dollars for European brands and some US brands and it isn't just for the glass.
 
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That's what the video noted as well.

Kidd X said:
Well this is from Leupold's website.

Leupold uses foreign sourced components for some parts of Golden Ring products, primarily lenses. This is because at this time, there is no American manufacturer that can supply the quantity of high quality lenses that Leupold needs for its annual Golden Ring Optics production. Leupold’s lens systems are designed at Leupold, by American optical engineers, in its state-of -the-art optics lab and then procured from outside vendors who must meet stringent quality standards.

Incoming parts are carefully inspected in our testing facility before they are accepted into the assembly process. Incidentally, all major optics producers worldwide acquire some or all of their glass from the same sources as Leupold. Some of these sources are located domestically, some are European, and some are Asian. Leupold has acquired its lenses this way for over 50 years.

So primarily the lenses which means other components are also sourced from outside the good old USA. If all their components were from Europe or Japan they would advertise that as both offer quality components. The fact they won't tell you what comes from where is called a clue..
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You guys are hopeless. What on earth do you think I have a motive to lie or mislead you? People like you is why CGN keeps getting worse. My only motivation is to clear up misinformation and you act like I am telling you that you are adopted FFS.

As for "Reliable and repeatable turrets are far more important than having the absolute best glass. We already know that Leupold(pronounced Loo- pold) oursources more than just lenses which means internals, the very heart of reliable repeatable optics." Did I stutter? I already said that the lenses are from Germany and some reticles are also from Germany. Also, turrets are simply screws so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make one. I'm done with you guys, go play Mulder and Scully somewhere else.
Kidd X said:
Well this is from Leupold's website.

Leupold uses foreign sourced components for some parts of Golden Ring products, primarily lenses. This is because at this time, there is no American manufacturer that can supply the quantity of high quality lenses that Leupold needs for its annual Golden Ring Optics production. Leupold’s lens systems are designed at Leupold, by American optical engineers, in its state-of -the-art optics lab and then procured from outside vendors who must meet stringent quality standards.

Incoming parts are carefully inspected in our testing facility before they are accepted into the assembly process. Incidentally, all major optics producers worldwide acquire some or all of their glass from the same sources as Leupold. Some of these sources are located domestically, some are European, and some are Asian. Leupold has acquired its lenses this way for over 50 years.

So primarily the lenses which means other components are also sourced from outside the good old USA. If all their components were from Europe or Japan they would advertise that as both offer quality components. The fact they won't tell you what comes from where is called a clue.. I think I mentioned this before but glass is only ONE aspect of an optic. Reliable and repeatable turrets are far more important than having the absolute best glass. We already know that Leupold(pronounced Loo- pold) oursources more than just lenses which means internals, the very heart of reliable repeatable optics. You pay big dollars for European brands and some US brands and it isn't just for the glass.
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st1264 said:
Let's see these shipping labels and concrete proof from the glass packaging at the factory to support your claim.

I don't really care, but it's obvious that you do.

Wherever the glass and/or other components are from, Leupold admits that there is outsourcing, especially the Glass. Higher end glass may be from Europe or Asia, lower end models most likely from Asia.

Like I said, my $300 pair of eyeglasses and my $40 one are of the same quality, clarity and have the same coatings. I'm sure the ones I had made in Windsor, ON came straight from China as well. Insurance is paying and someone is getting rich.
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Yeah, many American companies with MADE IN USA products use outsource components because the US just doesn't have the manufacturing capacity. It's the norm, get used to it.

Some people seem to still be living under a rock.
 
mebiuspower said:
Yeah, many American companies with MADE IN USA products use outsource components because the US just doesn't have the manufacturing capacity. It's the norm, get used to it.

Some people seem to still be living under a rock.
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Some just have that "Made in America" thing in their head and nothing you say will let you sway them otherwise.

If anyone can prove to me that the $280 Leupold Rifleman doesn't have Asian glass, I'll eat my own feces. All the manufacturers outsource and Germany isn't a large source for this stuff. It's Asian countries, primarily China that does it. This stuff just isn't made here anymore, manufacturing these components has gone to Asia where the worker makes a couple bucks a day. After all, the quality can still be excellent, it's contracted out and made to their specs.

People make fun of Vortex optics as they are made in China, when almost every manufacturer gets their sh!t from the same place.
 
Recce21 said:
You guys are hopeless. What on earth do you think I have a motive to lie or mislead you? People like you is why CGN keeps getting worse. My only motivation is to clear up misinformation and you act like I am telling you that you are adopted FFS.

As for "Reliable and repeatable turrets are far more important than having the absolute best glass. We already know that Leupold(pronounced Loo- pold) oursources more than just lenses which means internals, the very heart of reliable repeatable optics." Did I stutter? I already said that the lenses are from Germany and some reticles are also from Germany. Also, turrets are simply screws so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make one. I'm done with you guys, go play Mulder and Scully somewhere else.
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Read the bold I posted again. Leupold admits that they outsource parts and that they PRIMARILY do so for lenses but they also admit that OTHER parts are also outsourced. If their lenses were coming from Europe like say Schott glass or similar then they would post that data and be proud to run what is arguably the best glass in the world. They won't tell you where it comes from because it is not from Germany or anywhere else in Europe. Look at the rest of Leupold's statement about their use of imported parts.

Incidentally, all major optics producers worldwide acquire some or all of their glass from the same sources as Leupold. Some of these sources are located domestically, some are European, and some are Asian. Leupold has acquired its lenses this way for over 50 years

Their clever use of words has you believe their lenses come from Europe/Germany. What they really said was that all Major optics producers acquire SOME or ALL of their glass from the SAME SOURCES as Leupold. The lower end stuff is most likely sharing the same source as Leupold and that would be China, Philippines etc. Leupold also admits they have more than ONE source and won't list where in the great continent of ASIA they source their parts. US Optics and Nightforce admit to using glass from Japan because Japan puts out excellent glass. If Leupold used Japanese glass they would brag that up but they don't because their glass is not coming from Japan.

When we talk parts for erectors and turrets it isn't just screws. The right material with the right thread pitch manufactured properly will yield repeat-ability and consistency. Bulk buying pre fab'd "screws" results in Bushnell/Simmons/Tasco/Vortex levels of performance. As a side to this I read and watched a couple reviews of the Nightforce SHV 4-14x50 F1 scope. This is the ENTRY LEVEL first focal plane optic from Nightforce. In the testing done the reticle tracked nearly perfectly throughout it's entire elevation range with an error of juts 0.1 MILs over 13 MILs of travel. You likely couldn't hold steady within a tenth of a MIL or be that consistent on the trigger.

Here's some interesting videos on scopes and their tracking. I've linked the SHV above and a Leupold Mk4 6.5-20. From Euro-optic's website the Leupold is $110 more than the Nightforce and the Mk4 line is not "entry level" at least not according to users and Leupold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgpqpT0VYgo SHV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICSX_SOlGew Mk4

Note the error when the Mk4 is moved 5 mils left and right and notice that at 20 MILs it is a full 4/10ths of a MIL off. It is then 3/10ths off back at 15 MILS and off again at 10 MILs. The bottom line here is that the Leupold does not track as True as the Nightforce and for the cost of a Mk4 I would be pissed.

For giggles here's a Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50. It's an abortion... That optic on Euro-optic's website is $1700 USD nearly $500 more than the other two above. I'm sure everyone is using the same sources for all their parts. :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_xJ-3NH8JM
mebiuspower said:
Yeah, many American companies with MADE IN USA products use outsource components because the US just doesn't have the manufacturing capacity. It's the norm, get used to it.

Some people seem to still be living under a rock.
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Some people are in denial about where things are outsourced. The concept of outsourcing as you said is due to a lack of domestic options and is also largely driven by the much lower cost of offshore(namely Asian) made parts. Outsourced doesn't have to mean bad or low quality stuff but it often is the case.
 
I said I was done with you guys, and for good reason. Internet videos of non industry standard testing and parroting of other peoples "research" doesnt impress me. I hope you didnt spend too long writing that waste of time.
Kidd X said:
Read the bold I posted again. Leupold admits that they outsource parts and that they PRIMARILY do so for lenses but they also admit that OTHER parts are also outsourced. If their lenses were coming from Europe like say Schott glass or similar then they would post that data and be proud to run what is arguably the best glass in the world. They won't tell you where it comes from because it is not from Germany or anywhere else in Europe. Look at the rest of Leupold's statement about their use of imported parts.

Incidentally, all major optics producers worldwide acquire some or all of their glass from the same sources as Leupold. Some of these sources are located domestically, some are European, and some are Asian. Leupold has acquired its lenses this way for over 50 years

Their clever use of words has you believe their lenses come from Europe/Germany. What they really said was that all Major optics producers acquire SOME or ALL of their glass from the SAME SOURCES as Leupold. The lower end stuff is most likely sharing the same source as Leupold and that would be China, Philippines etc. Leupold also admits they have more than ONE source and won't list where in the great continent of ASIA they source their parts. US Optics and Nightforce admit to using glass from Japan because Japan puts out excellent glass. If Leupold used Japanese glass they would brag that up but they don't because their glass is not coming from Japan.

When we talk parts for erectors and turrets it isn't just screws. The right material with the right thread pitch manufactured properly will yield repeat-ability and consistency. Bulk buying pre fab'd "screws" results in Bushnell/Simmons/Tasco/Vortex levels of performance. As a side to this I read and watched a couple reviews of the Nightforce SHV 4-14x50 F1 scope. This is the ENTRY LEVEL first focal plane optic from Nightforce. In the testing done the reticle tracked nearly perfectly throughout it's entire elevation range with an error of juts 0.1 MILs over 13 MILs of travel. You likely couldn't hold steady within a tenth of a MIL or be that consistent on the trigger.

Here's some interesting videos on scopes and their tracking. I've linked the SHV above and a Leupold Mk4 6.5-20. From Euro-optic's website the Leupold is $110 more than the Nightforce and the Mk4 line is not "entry level" at least not according to users and Leupold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgpqpT0VYgo SHV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICSX_SOlGew Mk4

Note the error when the Mk4 is moved 5 mils left and right and notice that at 20 MILs it is a full 4/10ths of a MIL off. It is then 3/10ths off back at 15 MILS and off again at 10 MILs. The bottom line here is that the Leupold does not track as True as the Nightforce and for the cost of a Mk4 I would be pissed.

For giggles here's a Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50. It's an abortion... That optic on Euro-optic's website is $1700 USD nearly $500 more than the other two above. I'm sure everyone is using the same sources for all their parts. :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_xJ-3NH8JM


Some people are in denial about where things are outsourced. The concept of outsourcing as you said is due to a lack of domestic options and is also largely driven by the much lower cost of offshore(namely Asian) made parts. Outsourced doesn't have to mean bad or low quality stuff but it often is the case.
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Recce21 said:
I said I was done with you guys, and for good reason. Internet videos of non industry standard testing and parroting of other peoples "research" doesnt impress me. I hope you didnt spend too long writing that waste of time.
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One guy's 'expert insider opinion' without any proof means as much to me. You stated you had proof, but have come up even more empty handed than an internet video guy.

Maybe you should believe Leupold's own words? That would be a thought to consider.

Everything is made by computer now so it doesn't matter that much where it's made, overseas they make peanut wages and it makes them more profit. Ask all the auto companies why they go to Mexico...
 
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