Buy once cry once, the quality reloading set for beginners
- Thread starter C10
- Start date
While the FA M press appears to be a "upper end" product, it has some faults that are built in, some can be fixed, but require some time on your part, as FA won't fix them for you. Johnny's reloading Bench did 2 vids on it, one was his initial impression, where he found some minor, but irritating stuff, a fella in the comments put in a link to a vid he'd done on fixing faults in the M press, and the JRB did another vid about it.
Just saw a vid two days ago on intellidroppers, do not buy one with a 9/24 build date on it, he got 3 in a row that were no good, defective drive motors on the tubes on 2, logic board died on the first one, all in under 100 rds, two in under 24 rds IIRC. He gave up.
FA makes some OK stuff, some not so good, all mfgr's have some each of those, I wouldn't jump at buying their stuff other than things like loading trays, tumblers, priming tool are OK, prep ctr is OK.
Derraco Eng makes a cheaper comparator set than Hornady, avail on Amazon ( easier than screwing around with slitting cases and trying to get neck tension right to get a good reading). Before you look for reviews on "how good" stuff is, look for reviews on faults, problems, fixes. Ultimate Reloader hasn't found a product he doesn't like, but does all sorts of new product reviews, people like Johnny's Reloading Bench will test to fail and show you why and what it takes.
I've got Hornady, Forster, Lyman, RCBS stuff that's 45 yrs old, some elec scales between 3 and 35 yrs old, some Lee stuff that's 5-35 yrs old. A lot of the complaints of things folks buy, is about convenience or ease of use or speed, but, you won't know what is what for you, till you try it. Some are due to breakages, some weren't designed to do what they wanted, some are mass production faults, some are engineering issues or cost reduction engineering issues. Had a few duds myself, Hornady has been the worst-- 2 out of 4 products, other two are good product, have one RCBS I don't like for ease of use, one that I make work, but, wasn't made right, QC missed it, a Lee item that I could not make work, a Forster item I found out was causing issues, the day after I bought it, didn't install it.
Just saw a vid two days ago on intellidroppers, do not buy one with a 9/24 build date on it, he got 3 in a row that were no good, defective drive motors on the tubes on 2, logic board died on the first one, all in under 100 rds, two in under 24 rds IIRC. He gave up.
FA makes some OK stuff, some not so good, all mfgr's have some each of those, I wouldn't jump at buying their stuff other than things like loading trays, tumblers, priming tool are OK, prep ctr is OK.
Derraco Eng makes a cheaper comparator set than Hornady, avail on Amazon ( easier than screwing around with slitting cases and trying to get neck tension right to get a good reading). Before you look for reviews on "how good" stuff is, look for reviews on faults, problems, fixes. Ultimate Reloader hasn't found a product he doesn't like, but does all sorts of new product reviews, people like Johnny's Reloading Bench will test to fail and show you why and what it takes.
I've got Hornady, Forster, Lyman, RCBS stuff that's 45 yrs old, some elec scales between 3 and 35 yrs old, some Lee stuff that's 5-35 yrs old. A lot of the complaints of things folks buy, is about convenience or ease of use or speed, but, you won't know what is what for you, till you try it. Some are due to breakages, some weren't designed to do what they wanted, some are mass production faults, some are engineering issues or cost reduction engineering issues. Had a few duds myself, Hornady has been the worst-- 2 out of 4 products, other two are good product, have one RCBS I don't like for ease of use, one that I make work, but, wasn't made right, QC missed it, a Lee item that I could not make work, a Forster item I found out was causing issues, the day after I bought it, didn't install it.
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Lee cast press, lee dies, chargemaster lite.
Make your own lube with lanolin wax and alcohol
Get a frankfort arsenal wet tumbler with stainless steel pins, buy lemishine and dish soap
Go to crappy tire get some calipers on sale.
Lee power trimmer to trim.
Find a priming tool you like, there you go.
Some people in here have no concept of what would really be quality for a beginner so they can get making good quality ammo and not waste money on garbage, or crazy expensive things that they don't need.
Make your own lube with lanolin wax and alcohol
Get a frankfort arsenal wet tumbler with stainless steel pins, buy lemishine and dish soap
Go to crappy tire get some calipers on sale.
Lee power trimmer to trim.
Find a priming tool you like, there you go.
Some people in here have no concept of what would really be quality for a beginner so they can get making good quality ammo and not waste money on garbage, or crazy expensive things that they don't need.
270WSMXBolt
Regular
- Location
- Delta B.C.
I have never ventured into high end but use tools that relate to my personal demand.
Single stage RCBS Supreme
RCBS Matchmaster powder measure
RCBS, Lee, Redding dies
Lee factory crimp dies
Hornady lock rings, case comparator tools and head space gauges.
RCBS trimmer with three way cutting heads.
Burstfire annealer and pocket tension gauges.
Lymann pocket and flash tools.
Various vibratory tumblers and hot sonic bath
The list doesn't stop, but begins around there.
Neck tension mandrel is a gooder too. Short action customs or whoever.
Powder measure and neck tension will be your keys to loading consistent ammo... Arguably of course...
Cheers
Single stage RCBS Supreme
RCBS Matchmaster powder measure
RCBS, Lee, Redding dies
Lee factory crimp dies
Hornady lock rings, case comparator tools and head space gauges.
RCBS trimmer with three way cutting heads.
Burstfire annealer and pocket tension gauges.
Lymann pocket and flash tools.
Various vibratory tumblers and hot sonic bath
The list doesn't stop, but begins around there.
Neck tension mandrel is a gooder too. Short action customs or whoever.
Powder measure and neck tension will be your keys to loading consistent ammo... Arguably of course...
Cheers
Butcherbill
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
^^^This, buying some good usable gear as a beginner and learning the process is more important than buying the most expensive gear. Learning to be consistent through all the steps is more important, start watching videos of competitive hand loaders that have been doing it for ever consistency is brought up a lot.
There’s lots of good quality gear out there from the usual suspects, you don’t need everything at once. A press, dies, a way to trim and prime, calipers, bullet puller, weigh powder for starters. A couple loading manuals, a new Lyman and the Lee books would be my choices for a beginner. Buy a good kit and most of the items will be in it.
I haven’t been reloading as long as most in this thread and I remember thinking it seemed like a lot of gear I’d need but that wasn’t actually so, I’ve definitely bought a lot of other little bits and pieces now that I have a better idea of what I’m doing lol.
Seems to me you can buy a pretty precise starting kit for around $1000 that would last a lifetime. Is proper measurements and repeatability not what makes precise ammo?So then not so much "precision" nor "buy once, cry once"
I had a 550 for a while, and another Dllon press as well.
I still prefer a Rcbs Rockchucker.
I run my ammo for matches in stages ,100 cases at a time . Everything deprimed, trimmed, then chambered a deburred, primed. Powder charged, then bullets seated .
It's not fast enough for some but for me it works, precision is what I am looking for from 300 to 1,000 meters on targets not steel .
Cat
I still prefer a Rcbs Rockchucker.
I run my ammo for matches in stages ,100 cases at a time . Everything deprimed, trimmed, then chambered a deburred, primed. Powder charged, then bullets seated .
It's not fast enough for some but for me it works, precision is what I am looking for from 300 to 1,000 meters on targets not steel .
Cat
If there are items in my reloading room that I have bought and then re-bought a better product that actually makes a difference on paper, or adds convenience AND makes a better product it would be:
1) - Dies. If you want the best, skip the generic Lee, Hornady or RCBS, and go directly to Redding or the like Competition dies. They make a difference.
2) - Trimmers and chamfers. I have a Giraud that will do serious volumes churning out consistent prepped brass. While not needed, if you are into volume, it will make other tools redundant.
3) - Powder measures. Skip the beam scale and graduate to a quality electronic scale. My beam scale hasn't been touched in years and sits at the back of the bench taking up room.
4) - Press. I started with one of the best in a Rock Chucker. If I started with crap, it would have been replaced by now. Start with quality like the Forester or a Rock Chucker.
1) - Dies. If you want the best, skip the generic Lee, Hornady or RCBS, and go directly to Redding or the like Competition dies. They make a difference.
2) - Trimmers and chamfers. I have a Giraud that will do serious volumes churning out consistent prepped brass. While not needed, if you are into volume, it will make other tools redundant.
3) - Powder measures. Skip the beam scale and graduate to a quality electronic scale. My beam scale hasn't been touched in years and sits at the back of the bench taking up room.
4) - Press. I started with one of the best in a Rock Chucker. If I started with crap, it would have been replaced by now. Start with quality like the Forester or a Rock Chucker.
I’m curious on about your thoughts of aluminum presses. I have been using an aluminum Rcbs for over 20 years with no ill effects. Did you have a bad experience?
The RCBS cast aluminum presses are heavier built than the Lee's. I have seen several Lee presses break over the years .
I do however use a Lee hand press at the range for reseating bullets or working up loads and changing seating depths .
On a bet in 1986 I shot 10 rounds at 100 yards into a group that could be covered with a quarter loading with the Lee hand press, a Lee powder scoop and a Lee FL die and seating die.
Rifle was a Parker Hale 3006 with a 4X Redfield scope .
Hand loading doesn't have to be about speed and super expensive gear .
Cat
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Chargerguy
CGN frequent flyer
I didn’t buy once, cry once. I bought multiple times to get where I am now.
I use a Forster Co-Ax press. It’s a great press but there are other really good presses out there too. The co-ax does everything I need, and does it very well. I like being able to set my dies once for each rifle I load for then just slip it in and out of the press.
As for dies. Some cartridges I do a 2 step sizing process. Lee collet die followed by a body die (or FL bushing die with no bushing installed). If a Lee collet isn’t available then I use a Forster full length die with the expander removed followed by an expander mandrel. For a one stop shop though, I’d recommend the Forster FL die because they have a very nicely shaped, and less aggressive expander compared to a lot of others.
I use a Forster Co-Ax press. It’s a great press but there are other really good presses out there too. The co-ax does everything I need, and does it very well. I like being able to set my dies once for each rifle I load for then just slip it in and out of the press.
As for dies. Some cartridges I do a 2 step sizing process. Lee collet die followed by a body die (or FL bushing die with no bushing installed). If a Lee collet isn’t available then I use a Forster full length die with the expander removed followed by an expander mandrel. For a one stop shop though, I’d recommend the Forster FL die because they have a very nicely shaped, and less aggressive expander compared to a lot of others.
My match rifle dies are Widden and Redding bushing dies, but for my hunting rifles I quite often use fL Lee or Hornady dies .
Cat
the dillon 550 press is very good for producing a lot of ammo in a short period of time but it will not produce precision ammo. having said that, they are actually quite consistent at producing superior ammo for handgun and the black rifle crowd. most of us here on the board started with a single station press to learn how to produce safe, reliable, and accurate ammo and then moved on to progressive tools with the knowledge and skills we learned.
Not only myself but several people I know.
They're fine for the occasional reloader and I use a Hornady "Hand Press" myself, which produces very acceptable ammo.
If you're shooting a lot of different cartridges, aluminum presses will have "slopping" issues over time.
If you have to use an aluminum press, get one with steel sleeves around the mandrel and in the die holder.
Lee dies tend to be excellent for the price and many commercial factory reloaders use Lee Dies because of their consistent good quality.
Hornady dies are fine, but I don't particularly like their neck-sizing mandrels. That's just me, though. Most folks like them.
OP, most people have never bought more than one press in their lifetimes. If the press is of good quality and suits your purposes, there isn't any reason to do so.
I've used dozens of different presses, mostly because I was shooting several different cartridges in different venues and having a press set up exclusively for that purpose saved a lot of time and fiddling.
Now, I'm down to "two" presses on my bench, which is far to cluttered, RCBS Rock Chucker and Frankford Arsenal. I use the RCBS most because that's what my dies are set up for.
I've run across some pretty poorly machined dies in my 6 decades of reloading. Some were even produced by the "ELITES" of the industry.
Over the years, many of the producers have gone out of business or were bought out, etc.
Be careful to acquire a press that has the proper threads needed to accept standard North American 7/8 NC threads.
I still seen presses, usually accompanied by sets of dies which do not have "Standard" threads cut in them and need proprietary dies.
Be careful, but depending on what you shoot, those non standard presses can be a good option, when it comes to difficult to acquire dies for discontinued or wildcat cartridges, which are often only available in the "proprietary" system.
That being said, you can always get any dies specially made up, at horrific cost, for any modern press
HAHA! Sorry folks , Coffee hadn't kicked in yet. NOT a dime, it was in fact a QUARTER!
Cat
This.
C10: I own two 650's and several Dillon die sets/accessories, so I can attest to the top-notch quality of their products and customer service, but I see the 550 as a volume rifle (e.g .223) and a medium volume handgun press. I think you really want a press that doesn't utilize some type of rotating plate if you're looking for uber accurate rifle rounds, that's why most use some type of single stage press.
Again, first you need to determine your reloading goals, then you can buy the appropriate equipment at the correct price point. If that goal is still "precision" with "quality" equipment, as you stated in your original post, then it's going to get detailed and expensive, lol.
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I guess it kind of depends on budget. There is acceptable and theres very nice gear. You can get an F150 and it will be a fine and serviceable truck or you can get a GMC Denali or if your a car guy, a honda civic touring is a nice car but a porsche 911 turbo is a much nicer car. Nothing wrong with the honda though.
The stuff you listed is nice gear and will more than get the job done. There is another level of gear you can choose to buy and only you will be able to determine if its worth it.
I could get single digit SD and low ES reloading with some of the nice but not top tier stuff.
Now I use alot of SHORT ACTION CUSTOMS stuff. There Nexus Press is superb but its $875 usd. The body/bushing dies are about $500 canadian and the bullet seater is close to the same price. Some guys arent willing to spend that. You can buy whidden or forrester products dies for less and they are quite nice but not as nice as short action customs. AREA 419 gear is also top tier. There press and there dies are exceptionally well made and you cant go wrong with that stuff.
For a powder measure just spend a fortune and get the AUTO Trickler v4 its probably the single most import tool on my bench.
I used to use a forrester co-ax die and it was great, then I upgraded to SHORT ACTION Customs press and its a whole different level. I would say spend your initial budget on the press and the powder charger. Get the best gear you can afford. Spend less on the dies if you cant afford much after that but when you have the budget upgrade the dies. You can sell the used ones at a bit of a loss to help finance the upgrade.
I guess I should also ask how nice are your rifles? If they dont produce 1/2 MOA accuracy whats the point of spending a fortune on reloading when the performance cant be matched by your reloading? Spend the money on your rifles and optics first.
So the question is do you want to spend a couple of grand or are you willing to spend 5 or 10 grand? Here is a couple links to some very nice reloading gear.
https://shortactioncustoms.com/
https://www.area419.com/
