Buy Reloading press from States
- Thread starter sunflyhome
- Start date
Retail is tough. We own a small (6 employee) store here so understand the problems. You can't go head to head on prices with "big box" high volume stores either side of the border. They sometimes retail for less than what product costs the small shop. In our case some product, not legal for sale, in canada can legally be purchased mail order from American retailers. You can't compete with that either.
Speaking of competition, if you're a successful small business in Atlantic Canada and ACOA has operations similar to yours on their list. You occasionally have to compete with government backed start ups that rarely endure but do take market share and sometimes employees away from you before their virtually inevitable demise. You can't compete with this either.
Nonetheless, there are certain advantages to being local and these can be used to advantage. What won't work, IMHO, is getting a lip on and ridiculing your customers for committing the sin of being smart shoppers.
The "Buy Canadian" battle cry, even though we're often selling foreign made products
, has merit if promoted in a positive way. The point in making the ludicrous suggestion that cross boarder shopping is self destructive, escapes me. Customers are smarter than that.
Speaking of competition, if you're a successful small business in Atlantic Canada and ACOA has operations similar to yours on their list. You occasionally have to compete with government backed start ups that rarely endure but do take market share and sometimes employees away from you before their virtually inevitable demise. You can't compete with this either.
Nonetheless, there are certain advantages to being local and these can be used to advantage. What won't work, IMHO, is getting a lip on and ridiculing your customers for committing the sin of being smart shoppers.
The "Buy Canadian" battle cry, even though we're often selling foreign made products
, has merit if promoted in a positive way. The point in making the ludicrous suggestion that cross boarder shopping is self destructive, escapes me. Customers are smarter than that.delta1
CGN frequent flyer
Retail is tough. We own a small (6 employee) store here so understand the problems. You can't go head to head on prices with "big box" high volume stores either side of the border. They sometimes retail for less than what product costs the small shop. In our case some product, not legal for sale, in canada can legally be purchased mail order from American retailers. You can't compete with that either.
Speaking of competition, if you're a successful small business in Atlantic Canada and ACOA has operations similar to yours on their list. You occasionally have to compete with government backed start ups that rarely endure but do take market share and sometimes employees away from you before their virtually inevitable demise. You can't compete with this either.
Nonetheless, there are certain advantages to being local and these can be used to advantage. What won't work, IMHO, is getting a lip on and ridiculing your customers for committing the sin of being smart shoppers.
The "Buy Canadian" battle cry, even though we're often selling foreign made products
Well said.
I seem to have stirred up a hornets nest
A little history here;
My comments are based on being a commercial bullet maker for ten years. I got into the business , Accurate Bullet Co., because I was shooting 1000+ rounds of .45 ACP in practice and IPSC matches a week and there was no one in southern Ontario making a quality bullet anywhere near that volume. I purchased two six cavity H & G molds and made enough for myself and then some. Shooters want to use the same equipment the top shooters are using, it is the same in any sport. I was the top shooter using bullets I had made myself, provincial champion six times in the ten years I was competing. I was successful because my guns worked every time shooting the most accurate bullets I could make. There is great satisfaction in competing and winning matches with something you have made yourself. I won more guns in matches than I could possibly use. I sold everything I could produce, the problem was I couldn't make them fast enough and ended up with $50K of equipment to keep up. Volume was so high I didn't have time to practice, I bought a F350 dually diesel crew cab to handle the weight of the virgin alloy coming in and the product I delivered going out.
The prizes awarded at many matches in Canada at that time were great. I remember the Sharon Open awarding guns to each class, with other prizes down to third, High Lady, High Junior, and more. All donated by local dealers and suppliers through the match organizers.
I was able to give back to the sport by sponsoring matches and shooters, frequently donating 10K bullets to a match.
When I stopped shooting in 1995 I closed the business and started selling the machines, the last two casters went at this years Provincials at Sharon. Thank you to everyone who used my bullets, I hope you had as much fun as I did. I have no regrets whatsoever, it was a great ride.
I observed that shooters will buy garbage bullets because they are $2.00/1000 cheaper then come to me and ask why they are having problems. I tell them to go to the guy that sold you the garbage bullets and ask him. "I bought them south of the border ', or 'He doesn't answer the phone', 'He doesn't know'. You get what you pay for. That is the price of success, whether it is the product itself or service after the sale.
Shooters are their own worst enemy especially regarding equipment and components, beating their head against a wall competing using inadequate products then losing interest in the sport all the while bleating about how unfair it is, the lack of prizes, their guns don't work or their bullets tumble or disintegrate before they hit the target (observed just that at a match two weeks ago, a shooters' 9mm plated bullets arriving at the target in pieces).
Bragging rights are about all that shooters get back these days. Perhaps it is enough. Is it?
Local dealers support the shooting sports, donating products and time for prizes at matches and they do so to the extent that shooters support them.
I understand there are VERY FEW prizes at matches in Canada today.
I wonder why?
Well said Bryan.
Sadly, we suffer from a Walmart mentality these days. Bottom line seems to override common sense.
OPCX6 isn't exagerating when he says he made an excellent bullet. I used to use his 200 gr swc in .45 and his 158gr .357 bullets. The weight was excellent. The lube was hard without being brittle. The sprue was perfect.
Then Excel Bullets started putting out bullets for a few bucks a box cheaper. The weights were all over the map. The lube was either soft, or missing. The sprues were non-existant, being sunk into the base of the bullet.
However, having a dumptruck millionaire father footing the bills, Marty could affort to sell his #### cheaply, and (I believe) offer the stores better payment terms than I suspect OPCX6 could.
Ontario shooters lost a superior product by a few dollars a thousand.
My fear is that AIM could suffer the same fate.
Sadly, we suffer from a Walmart mentality these days. Bottom line seems to override common sense.
OPCX6 isn't exagerating when he says he made an excellent bullet. I used to use his 200 gr swc in .45 and his 158gr .357 bullets. The weight was excellent. The lube was hard without being brittle. The sprue was perfect.
Then Excel Bullets started putting out bullets for a few bucks a box cheaper. The weights were all over the map. The lube was either soft, or missing. The sprues were non-existant, being sunk into the base of the bullet.
However, having a dumptruck millionaire father footing the bills, Marty could affort to sell his #### cheaply, and (I believe) offer the stores better payment terms than I suspect OPCX6 could.
Ontario shooters lost a superior product by a few dollars a thousand.
My fear is that AIM could suffer the same fate.
I bought my RCBS from Bass Pro USA. I will not apologize to my local shop for spending 370$ cad all in and not buying it from them at 597 plus tax... This year alone I have bought a CZ75B, SKS, Browning Buck Mark, LAkefield .22, 1500 S&B 9mm, 1 crate 7.62x39.. ect from my local shop. I try not buy things from online dealers and support local but sometimes that is just stupid.
Thank you, Dave, but Marty didn't 'put me out of business' as many people have assumed. I did. I had other things to do.
My payment terms for my gun shop customers were the best in the business; I put my prroducts on their shelves on consignment with an inventory, when they called for more they paid for what they had sold. This was Janets' idea and it worked great. Slow moving styles were reduced and fast movers increased accorrding to individual shops' sales patterns.
Marty was selling some, but mine were doing better, and business was good.
Many personal things were happening in my life, however, and I had lost the passion for IPSC that I came into the sport with ten years ago. It was time to move on. Without going into details we closed down the business, kept the equipment for a while then sold most of it. I went to find the meaning of life and after 16 years have decided to get back into shooting, albeit in a more limited way. As a super senior (it sucks to be getting old!) and a lot heavier, I won't be winning any IPSC matches , I'm no Mike Auger, but I can have fun and enjoy shooting and competing again. Now my spare time is mine and not for making bullets for others.
Now I am buying cast .45s, 200 swc from DRG, as I have run out of my old inventory. Kudos to Don Goodbrand, he makes good .45s, almost as good as mine
. I still have a good supply of 9's and 38 super left, however.Have not tried Wolfs',but I hear they are good, just haven't seen any on the shelves to buy.
My last two Ballisti-Cast casters were sold to AIM at this years Provincials so I guess I will have to try some of those new-fangled plateds too.
I realize that the sport and the industry has changed a lot since I left, and that is O K. Life is the way it is because life is the way it is.
Again, I have no regrets whatsoever.
I hope my original post didn't sound bitter, that was not my intention, merely an observation.
Shooters today have changed more than I realized, and in my opinion, frequently putting economic self-interest ahead of the good of the sport and national pride, and the quality of the matches reflect that. So be it. Things change, usually not for the better.
Most of you will never know how good it was in the early 80s' to get into the sport in its' infancy in Canada. Pity. The joy we had with stock 1911 Colts in .45 acp(there were no clones then, no Norincos). There was only one 'division', run what you brung, winner take all. What fun we had going over walls, through doors and tunnels, shooting from the back of moving pick-ups amd the side door of vans, rescuing The Princess several times (thank you Jo Winkler), Three Brass Monkeys, discovering compensators and the very beginnings of race guns, watching Doc win his fifth national championship, John Shaw, Second Chance ,saturday 16:00 at Sharon, The Black Fly Open, ............................................................................
Others, like cannuck223, remember.
Dave, what is it they say about opinions.......?
O K, I'll be quiet now (unless I don't). I'm going to go play with my original single-port Colt .45 Wilson racegun and have some fun. Come and chat if you see me at a match, hat says 'NRA Life'.
Bryan Marino
Of course if your product is superior, it is worth more, demand will be higher, and it should be priced accordingly - but we're talking about brand name items - same manufacturer, same packaging. I get in my car, drive south of the border, purchase said items, pay the duty and tax, fill the gas tank, and still come out ahead. 'splain dat, Lucy - I'm all ears.
For most shops, it's a simple matter of the cost of shipping and brokerage.
For you, you had the option of taking a drive. You don't include the cost of your fuel and wear and tear on the vehicle into the price of the press. You don't include the hours you spend in transit.
Take Dillon for example. A 1050 costs $1600USD. In the US, shipping isn't that much. At one point Dillon used to ship presses for free, but I don't know if that's the case anymore. Let's assume shipping is $100.
The guy in the US get's the press direct for $1700.
The dealer in Canada get's a 5%-10% discount on Dillon made equipment, but pay shipping forwarded to Canada. When I bought my first 1050, the shipping by USPS was $400. I note that Frank lists the 1050 for $1999. My math suggests he's not making much on the sale.
Here's the breakdown copied directly from my Cabela's invoice:
1 of 21-5842 HORNADY Lock N Load AP Press w/Case FeederShipped-07/02/09Total
Merchandise = $689.99
Fee = $3.50
Postage = $22.95
Tax = $89.70
ORDER TOTAL = $806.14
Payment Types Used On This Order
This was, of course in $US. The charge on my Visa was $Cdn 948.45. The trick is to ship via USPS not UPS.
You missed my "fill the gas tank".
Let's look at a Chargemaster Combo - everyone wants one.
WSS: $520.
Nachez: $347 (actually, it's on sale right now for $279.95)
Let's go nuts, and say exchange is %15 (it's not): $399.05.
Duty fees, assuming the item is not made in the US: $422.99.
Guns, scopes, components - sure, we're all screwed there. And if mom and pop have the same item for a couple of bucks more than Le Baron, well I'll gladly support them. I haven't set foot in a Walmart in at least a year, and I cringe every time I HAVE to go to "Canadian" Tire.
But that's an extra 100 clams, my friend. Hardly being fickle, wouldn't you agree?
