Buyer beware !

S

Sasquatch807

Regular
Super GunNutz
Rating - 100%
507   0   0
Location
North-Central Quebec
Long Branch rifles in original military configuration bring premium prices these days, and I guess some sellers have been encouraged by the sudden increase into “doctoring” less than perfect rifles to make a few extra bucks. Recently, I have spotted rifles on the EE that had non LB parts with dubious stamps that looked recently applied, especially on the wood. Today, there was an “all matching” rifle with an asking price of 1.5k that was listed as sold within three hours. There were lots of pictures accompanying it that clearly showed dubious or counterfeit stamps on the wood set and a few of the metal parts, including the bolt. Some parts were clearly Brit or Savage but had carelessly stamped LB markings. Maybe the seller was honest, had nothing to do with this, couldn’t tell the difference and was taken in himself. If you restore a rifle and do that, please mention it in the add. In any case, buyer beware! Before plunking down that kind of money, please do your research.
 
Last edited:
What is the hurry with sellers deleting their ads immediately after the quick buck is received?
Are they covering their tracks so the item doesn’t go under the microscope in the days to come and get cut to shreds on the milsurp section! Lots of misrepresented Crap being sold on the EE at times by those that know it’s bad and those who are clueless.
Then that’s where the Sucker is born every minute comes in.
Do your research.

Sasquatch807 said:
Long Branch rifles in original military configuration bring premium prices these days, and I guess some sellers have been encouraged by the sudden increase into “doctoring” less than perfect rifles to make a few extra bucks. Recently, I have spotted rifles on the EE that had non LB parts with dubious stamps that looked recently applied, especially on the wood. Today, there was an “all matching” rifle with an asking price of 1.5k that was listed as sold within three hours. There were lots of pictures accompanying it that clearly showed dubious or counterfeit stamps on the wood set and a few of the metal parts, including the bolt. Some parts were clearly Brit or Savage but had carelessly stamped LB markings. Maybe the seller was honest, had nothing to do with this, couldn’t tell the difference and was taken in himself. If you restore a rifle and do that, please mention it in the add. In any case, buyer beware! Before plunking down that kind of money, please do your research.
Click to expand...
 
I looked at it and thought the stamps looked wrong. A couple stamps where turned the wrong way. Some people will do anything for a few extra dollars. I rebuild Lee Enfields and I use nothing but original parts. I will not restamp parts making them match. Just wrong to restamp. Especially passing a rifle off as original. Should be tarred and feathered.
 
What I find odd is the premium for a Mark 1* - maybe just me, but almost all that I have and have had, have chips occurring out of that bolt head dismount slot up near the front. As if many do not see that or know to check that? For the utility type Quad and Side-by-Side carry that I have built for myself, I much prefer the British Mark 1, for that reason alone. For the record, I did own a full wood Maltby that someone wanted worse than I did, and I still have a full wood Long Branch, although 1944, I think, and in British wood, to boot...

But, to the OP's point, I generally agree. Is very possible that a Long Branch might have ended up with some NOS beech wood from Britain, that some of the fittings might have british contractor logos on them, and so on. But, much more likely was put together recently, with recently sourced pieces. I presume that guy from Europe still selling most any stamp that you want, on eBay, so the stampings are not really the "be all" either. As mentioned - where are they, versus where are they supposed to be? Was that forearm fitted with tight draws and muzzle up pressure? Does the bolt head "clock" within spec, besides passing a headspace check? Is all good if a price is agreed between a knowledgeable buyer and a knowledgeable seller, but I am thinking that often is not occurring??
 
Last edited:
Potashminer said:
What I find odd is the premium for a Mark 1* - maybe just me, but almost all that I have and have had, have chips occurring out of that bolt head dismount slot up near the front. As if many do not see that or know to check that? For the utility type Quad and Side-by-Side carry that I have built for myself, I much prefer the British Mark 1, for that reason alone. For the record, I did own a full wood Maltby that someone wanted worse than I did, and I still have a full wood Long Branch, although 1944, I think, and in British wood, to boot...

But, to the OP's point, I generally agree. Is very possible that a Long Branch might have ended up with some NOS beech wood from Britain, that some of the fittings might have british contractor logos on them, and so on. But, much more likely was put together recently, with recently sourced pieces. I presume that guy from Europe still selling most any stamp that you want, on eBay, so the stampings are not really the "be all" either. As mentioned - where are they, versus where are they supposed to be? Was that forearm fitted with tight draws and muzzle up pressure? Does the bolt head "clock" within spec, besides passing a headspace check? Is all good if a price is agreed between a knowledgeable buyer and a knowledgeable seller, but I am thinking that often is not occurring??
Click to expand...

I agree, and in this case, the worse part was that the British parts were crudely stamped with improvised LB and Canadian broad arrow imitations.
 
Is a bit sad that "humped" guns can be passed as "original" - or at least priced like one - when information to verify is so readily available - and it continues - an "original" Swede 96 that has different serial number on the wood under the chamber than on the receiver; a P14 that has a different serial number on top front of rear sight than is on the barrel or the receiver, an M1917 with a front volley sight cut out along the stock. Let alone parts that never were given marks or serial numbers, now having them. Hard to imagine how some people sleep - likely soundly, I'll bet...

I suppose if one can convince yourself that a genuine WWII rifle with impeccable provenance including the purchase receipt from DND surplus, is actually worth $5,000, then perhaps the idea that it is "okay" to offer a made-up "wannabe" rifle for $1,500 is actually "fair". A bit sketchy in my opinion, that is all...
 
Last edited:
I suggest that every EE buyer, regardless of what's being purchased, save the web page with the ad complete with all the pictures until the item is received and the purchaser is happy.
 
bb07 said:
I suggest that every EE buyer, regardless of what's being purchased, save the web page with the ad complete with all the pictures until the item is received and the purchaser is happy.
Click to expand...

That is a decent suggestion. but based on PM's that I received, many buyers do not know what to ask about, and many sellers not willing or able to dismantle to provide pictures of what I consider to be important stuff. Many buyers want something that "looks like" a "war time" gun. Do not actually know what that is. Then, I suspect, a grandson is trying to sell as "Grandpa's gun that he used in the war". Really, really gets back to "buy the item - not the story"!!!

Currently going through similar with my latest purchase, except scroll marks on barrel say "PALMA TROPHY MATCH 1969" - so not much doubt about that - just trying to confirm if the medals that came with it actually belonged to the shooter of that rifle - so far, is NOT checking out... the name on one medal from 1969 was a member of that Team, but was not a shooter, that year, and the other "medal" (coin?) most likely was handed out the next year, when that name truly was a shooter on Canada's team.
 
Last edited:
Potashminer said:
Is a bit sad that "humped" guns can be passed as "original" - or at least priced like one - when information to verify is so readily available - and it continues - an "original" Swede 96 that has different serial number on the wood under the chamber than on the receiver; a P14 that has a different serial number on top front of rear sight than is on the barrel or the receiver, an M1917 with a front volley sight cut out along the stock. Let alone parts that never were given marks or serial numbers, now having them. Hard to imagine how some people sleep - likely soundly, I'll bet...

I suppose if one can convince yourself that a genuine WWII rifle with impeccable provenance including the purchase receipt from DND surplus, is actually worth $5,000, then perhaps the idea that it is "okay" to offer a made-up "wannabe" rifle for $1,500 is actually "fair". A bit sketchy in my opinion, that is all...
Click to expand...

I have bought many Enfields over the years from surplus outfits such as Century or International Firearms, or from people who had bought the rifles from them. As surplus rifles they had all matter of parts on them, but nobody was trying to rip you off or fool you with this. But I’d someone stamps LB and c broad arrow on a mismatched part last week, that is not ok.
 
For sure about the "last week's stamps". But a bit on the buyer's also - everyone wants a "deal" - just have difficulty with notion that they have been "took". Not willing to reveal that, if/when they pass it along - like the guy Schultz on old TV show "Hogan's Heroes" - "I know NOTHING...." (And I am likely dating myself...) Actually see that in a lot of ads - "I am not an expert on these...." - but very willing to price them as authentic - because there is likely a buyer, who knows even less, who will pay that price...
 
Third picture is interesting
Century probably had the last lot of great military LB's , they were lend lease returns from the Greeks
1941's/1950's.
 
Thanks for posting these pics Sas. I have been collecting Long Branch for over 55 years and this is the first time
I have seen forged Canadian marks. I even have the original C broad arrow dies but refuse to use them or loan them out.
Those marks are intentional deception. JOHN
 
There was someone on CGN that posted a while back warning us that
there was someone he heard of humping Enfields as the faker had stamps and dies for
“Enhancing Rifles for a Profit”....
 
can14 said:
Third picture is interesting
Century probably had the last lot of great military LB's , they were lend lease returns from the Greeks
1941's/1950's.
Click to expand...

Those were the good days Can14.

In the second picture, you can clearly see that a B and an L have been struck on a thick flat middle band using two different punches. LB only produced milled, thick, rounded surface bands, and thin stamped, flat welded ones. That band looks early British. Savage also made such middle bands but you couldn’t see the brazed weld like that. In the first pic, the LB/32, look like it was stamped using five different punches. The original stamp was one piece.
 
jtaylor said:
Thanks for posting these pics Sas. I have been collecting Long Branch for over 55 years and this is the first time
I have seen forged Canadian marks. I even have the original C broad arrow dies but refuse to use them or loan them out.
Those marks are intentional deception. JOHN
Click to expand...

I recently bought an original, used LB walnut fore stock from an ebay seller I had done good business with in the past. When it arrived, I noticed the LB had been freshly restruck and it had a weird C broad arrow stamp that looked recent. It also had a deep dent that looked like it had been done with a ball peen hammer. I looked at the dent carefully through my machinist glasses and was able to see the letters DP. So not only did that fail to obliterate the DP mark, it left a big dent in the wood. After a discussion with the seller, he claimed that the original stamps had become too faint so he had “refreshed” them. I explained to him that the forend was worth more before the refreshing and I have never bought anything else from him again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom