Buying a Tranter revolver, can I get the rcmp letter if serial number nonexistent?

Pete04 said:
Please read my submission again.
I was charged with knowingly being in possession of unregistered and prohib. (barrel length) firearms. The officer in the field has NO IDEA about antiques.

ALL PAPERWORK FOR ANTIQUES and CERTS for NON and RESTRICTEDS WAS PRESENT AND SEIZED at the time. Made no difference to the cops. They are not the judge.

After you spend the night in jail, you will go home to find it totally ripped apart. I mean TOTALLY torn apart! My bed was stood up against the wall! LOL All drawers and closets emtied and left on the floor.

Nine months (hanging over your head for that time is the very real fact that, at the time, gun charge is a 3 year minimum jail sentence) and many many many thousands of lawyer dollars later, YES, the crown will finally have to admit they were wrong. TOO BAD, SO SAD, YOU STILL LOSE.
Yes, you can sue. 10-12 years of time and 1/4 mil. $. I won but at what cost?

So, all I am saying, from my experience, is The rcmp Letter is not the "get out of jail card" we would hope it is.
As a responsible dealer and generally a good guy, please let guys know discression with use/display is important.

Your luck with officers in the field is probably a matter of the odds but don't discount political agenda also.
This is what caught me. Mayor david miller and his lap dog bill blair needed a collector as an example. May be you next.
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That is alarming, to say the least. You are not the first one to tell me such a story, but all of them - no matter how frightening and frustrating - ended up being cleared in the end. Yes, the letter did not help at the time, but the owner and his lawyer knowing for a fact that the gun(s) was/were antiques sure helped them sleep at night through the process. Imagine if you had a gun confiscated that you only THINK is antique, but until the cops and the court determine it to be so, you would be hanging over the abyss. I would still rather have mine "lettered" than just take a seller's word for it. Again, the letter is only as good as the information submitted to the Technical Division.
As far as ammo and carrying it around loaded goes, I think we're getting off topic here. I have had a few conversations with the head honcho at technical about this and his answer was, quite rightly, ammo, transport and discharge are "enforcement issues", completely out of the realm of status declaration.
OP - I looked at the Bonham's ad and your Webley-Bentley may be okay, but still there is nothing to suggest definitely that it was made pre-1898. Chas Osbourne was registered in Birmingham until 1900, the proof marks were still used after 1898, and it does not say "Webley" anywhere that I can see. You can try to get an opinion from the technical division in advance of the auction, if there is time. Send them an e-mail with a link to the web page. If they are not too busy, they will give you an assessment. I have done this occasionally.
Good luck!
 
tiriaq said:
A percussion Webley-Bentley could date post-1897?
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Under ordinary circumstances, no this one is highly unlikely to be post-1897 however that is not what the RCMP do. It is not their mandate to interpret the possibilities of a gun being antique, they go strictly by the evidence presented. For example, it is quite common for people to purchase replica "antiques" - Colt Navy's, Schofield's and Le Mat's and grind off the "Made in Italy" marks and artificially age them in order to sell them at a profit. The techical division is not equipped to determine by way of photographs whether the subject gun is an original or a doctored replica. They strictly rely on the available evidence - proof marks, maker's names and serial numbers. That's why it may be prudent to ask their opinion before making a purchase. Yes, it's highly unlikely that the Webley-Bentley was ever manufactured as a replica, and it is highly unlikely that anyone still manufactured such a dated design after 1897, but that is not the technician's responsibility to determine. We, as the applicants, are responsible for presenting the proper evidence.
 
In On. you need PAL to procure ammunition/cartriges, not to possess.
Not sure about PAL for purchase in other provinces.

May be different in your province for small game hunting with antique but in On. it's a go.

Any Antique can be loaded and fired any place it's legal for restricted and/or non-restricted to be loaded and fired. Obviously this is not on the street, your house(in a town or city) or the mall.
Same as any gun, Antique long or hand guns can only be loaded where it is legal to shoot them.

Transport antique UNLOADED HANDGUN in locked box. Unlike restricted handgun/rifle, no need for trigger lock inside locked box/container. Long gun antique needs only to be unloaded for transport.

Storage of Antique long and hand gun...unloaded.

Display of Antique long and hand gun...unloaded.
 
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fritzhanzel said:
There are in fact NO regulations if you can carry and/or discharge an antique firearm in the bush. There is also nowhere mentioned what a RCMP letter confirming your firearm as antique will do or will not do.

It is a slippery slope at best.
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Regulations tell you what you can’t do, not what you can do. As Pete04 pointed out, in Ontario you can carry an antique and discharge it any place you can discharge a restricted or non-restricted firearm and you can also hunt small game with it as well. Loaded or non loaded is not the issue when carrying it but of course it must be unloaded during transport and storage.

The RCMP letter or Antique Checklist (as some of us carry) is meaningless to a cop or CO if they aren’t aware of the antique status allowances and aren’t prepared to listen. The good news is every CO I’ve talked to while hunting has been aware of the ability to hunt small game with it but I’ve talked to one cop about it and he had no idea it was legal. I carry mine on my private property and our private hunting property and nowhere else to ensure the uninformed can’t ruin my day.

Edit, I do take it with me on our moose hunting trips to northern Ontario but only on rifle hunts as on an archery hunt, it’s illegal in Ontario to have anything other than archery equipment when hunting large game with a bow.
 
Let's not mix hunting regulations and firearms regulations.

Good luck if you believe that you can posses ammunition without a PAL. I would be very careful with this, especially when you come into contact with the police, i.e. search of your home or your car. And those are the situations when it really counts. If you will be found in possession of ammunition during a traffic stop without a license, I an almost 100% guarantee you that you will get charged. The problem always is that getting out of a charge will cost you a lot of money, even if the law explicitly may not prohibit it.it

As to transport and to answer the poster above me. Not only do you have to unload antique handguns during transport, you also have to lock them in a container. Read up.

"Any Antique can be loaded and fired any place it's legal for restricted and/or non-restricted to be loaded and fired. Obviously this is not on the street, your house(in a town or city) or the mall.
Same as any gun, Antique long or hand guns can only be loaded where it is legal to shoot them."

This statement is very unclear. You may want to specify what you are actually trying to say. I am mostly interest in the part where you think antique handguns can be fired, especially coming from someone who has been bitten before.
 
bush1 said:
Regulations tell you what you can’t do, not what you can do. As Pete04 pointed out, in Ontario you can carry an antique and discharge it any place you can discharge a restricted or non-restricted firearm and you can also hunt small game with it as well. Loaded or non loaded is not the issue when carrying it but of course it must be unloaded during transport and storage.

The RCMP letter or Antique Checklist (as some of us carry) is meaningless to a cop or CO if they aren’t aware of the antique status allowances and aren’t prepared to listen. The good news is every CO I’ve talked to while hunting has been aware of the ability to hunt small game with it but I’ve talked to one cop about it and he had no idea it was legal. I carry mine on my private property and our private hunting property and nowhere else to ensure the uninformed can’t ruin my day.

Edit, I do take it with me on our moose hunting trips to northern Ontario but only on rifle hunts as on an archery hunt, it’s illegal in Ontario to have anything other than archery equipment when hunting large game with a bow.
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See here is my problem. It does not help you what is legal if you get charged when caught. You could as well bring your Glock (not for hunting), same result.
 
fritzhanzel said:
Let's not mix hunting regulations and firearms regulations.

Good luck if you believe that you can posses ammunition without a PAL. I would be very careful with this, especially when you come into contact with the police, i.e. search of your home or your car. And those are the situations when it really counts. If you will be found in possession of ammunition during a traffic stop without a license, I an almost 100% guarantee you that you will get charged. The problem always is that getting out of a charge will cost you a lot of money, even if the law explicitly may not prohibit it.it

As to transport and to answer the poster above me. Not only do you have to unload antique handguns during transport, you also have to lock them in a container. Read up.

"Any Antique can be loaded and fired any place it's legal for restricted and/or non-restricted to be loaded and fired. Obviously this is not on the street, your house(in a town or city) or the mall.
Same as any gun, Antique long or hand guns can only be loaded where it is legal to shoot them."

This statement is very unclear. You may want to specify what you are actually trying to say. I am mostly interest in the part where you think antique handguns can be fired, especially coming from someone who has been bitten before.
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One step at a time;

You do not need a PAL to possess ammunition if you already have it or it’s in your house and you don’t have a PAL. Obviously have to have a PAL to acquire it.

Of course you have to have it in a locked container for transport similar to a restricted but the exception is no trigger lock required. Transport also includes my ATV so it’s in a 3 button electronic Stack-On pistol container. It’s in an open holster when off the ATV.

Yes, loaded and fired any place it’s legal to load and fire a restricted or non-restricted. Not unclear at all. I can legally shoot mine in my backyard no problem as I’m rural and there’s no municipal firearms discharge restrictions.

I wasn’t mixing hunting regs with firearms regs, only pointing out that it legal to hunt small game in Ontario with an antique handgun. Some provinces have regulations against that unfortunately.
 
fritzhanzel said:
See here is my problem. It does not help you what is legal if you get charged when caught. You could as well bring your Glock (not for hunting), same result.
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You’re way off base with that thinking.

Of course you would be charged if you “bring your Glock”. You would also be charged of driving drunk as well. Don’t mixup things that are obviously illegal.

I have no problem doing things that are totally legal but I do use a little caution around my antique handguns and that’s why I said that I carry them on private property mostly and only on crown land when rifle hunting moose and not when archery hunting.
 
bush1 said:
You’re way off base with that thinking.

Of course you would be charged if you “bring your Glock”. You would also be charged of driving drunk as well. Don’t mixup things that are obviously illegal.

I have no problem doing things that are totally legal but I do use a little caution around my antique handguns and that’s why I said that I carry them on private property mostly and only on crown land when rifle hunting moose and not when archery hunting.
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Yes maybe I am off base but maybe not, otherwise you would not have to take precautions.
 
I've an Acreage. Pretty cool to use them here. Taken them to family reunions in Sask... big hit there.
Taken them to work, I'm a remote worker. Stay of off location, nobody's business then.
Just nice to have. But to wear? But if they are small enough to pack...useless for anything other than poker table distance.
Big enough to do something? Boat anchor on your leg or belt.
Someone sold a Cavalry style on a Sam Browne instead of a belt...that was a neat looking unit.
Had the ability to be swung around slightly and become 'Less Open Carry'ish'
 
While not trying to derail the original post or criticize differing opinions, I remember Pete04's trials and tribulations with the police & the courts... That is an experience I never want to know! Thanks Pete for your real world input into this matter. It's one of the many reasons I try to avoid the Golden Horseshoe like the plague!!! IMO: Any interaction with police regarding any firearm or antique will be dependent on the ignorance of the officer in command at the time. & I don't figure any of his/her subordinates will challenge their decision on scene... If it's a political move, like I believe Pete's case was. Well, your screwed until your lawyer can unscrew it.... & as he put it: Time & money.
 
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