Buying milsurp rifles

Internet is still a gamble. Face to face is still the best bet, but even that can go sideways. Bought one from an aquaintence a couple weeks ago, shoots nice perfectly sideways keyholes at 100m from its really good bore. Lol. Oh well, counter bore it and try it again.
 
milsurpo said:
Not really- it's super-easy to upload large numbers of photos right on to your post and it's a mystery why some sellers won't do it. If you're annoyed with providing photos via e-mail to "tire kickers" then make the minor effort to include adequate photos with the WTS post. I pretty much ignore WTS posts (even for models I really want) if the add includes a statement like "photos e-mailed only to truly serious, genuine buyers".

milsurpo
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If it is "super easy", please show everybody how. This is not a snipe. Please show everybody. :)
 
I agree, even photos are not a cure-all- I sold an old Cooey, lots of clear photos, all flaws adequately described. Buyer beat me down in price and we came to an agreement. A few days after he received it, he wanted a refund as it "was in generally poor shape" . Seems photos and a good description aren't sufficient for some buyers.
 
I just don,t see what the problem is.There is a 3 day inspection with every sale on this forum.If you are not happy with the purchase,for any reason,just send it back for refund.You will lose the shipping cost,but if you are going to loose sleep over $50-$60 you should only buy face to face where you can inspect every detail before buying!
 
superbee said:
I just don,t see what the problem is.There is a 3 day inspection with every sale on this forum.If you are not happy with the purchase,for any reason,just send it back for refund.You will lose the shipping cost,but if you are going to loose sleep over $50-$60 you should only buy face to face where you can inspect every detail before buying!
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Mandatory three day inspection period? Where is that specified?
 
The 3 day inspection is not on this forum.I got mixed up with a US based forum,sorry.

If anybody includes in their ad "all sales final" or "no returns".Do not buy it if you are conserned about condition.Tell them that you will return it if not completly satisfied.It is no cost to the seller.I have bought an sold a lot of milsurps in the last 30 years.I have only returned about a half dozen and about 4-5 were returned to me that I was trying to sell.
 
I ask for numerous photos and ask very detailed questions every single time. If you don't you'll just get burned.

I do notice that sometimes though sellers on here are overwhelmed by what I ask for and they don't even bother to reply.
 
A bit off topic, but here is my rant.

I already spend more time on this forum than I should. I very rarely sell on the EE because of having to deal with the tire kickers and the " can you send me more pictures of every possible aspect of this $100.00 gun"? Most of my sales are at gun shows where I can personally show each and every person the gun in question and answer questions. That way they have the chance to see the bore and check it with my bore gauges, check the head space and see the overall condition of the gun.

A while back I thought that I would sell off some of my Lee Enfield parts that I had acquired over the years. While I was able to help out some of my fellow CGN restorers, I had multiple requests for pictures of single screws. I finally took the ad down because It was not worth my time to take pictures from 4 different angles of a screw that you cannot find at any North American source. NOS in my ad. Not may need work, screw head or threads are buggered. The thing that kills me are the guys that offer half of the "out of stock" price and want me to include shipping.

If I need something for a rifle that would be useless otherwise and is generally unavailable, or I want a rifle that is rare then there is fair market price. Pay what you think is appropriate but please be reasonable.
 
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Is this now an EE rant thread? I'm so in.

Watch out for desporterized rifles. You never know what the numpty has done to it. I bought a Faz No.4 Mk.1 last year from a member here who either never fired the rifle, or knew it was defective before selling it to me.

1. The receiver was slightly pinched in, indicating it was put in a vice at some point. This resulted in the bolt release tab binding instead of being able to push it down all the way.
2. The chamber was extremely pitted resulting in brass ripped in half.
3. The headspace was so effed it defies belief. It had a #3 bolt head that had been milled down. I found this out after getting some hot gas thrown back at me due to blown primers. I took it to a local gunsmith who measured the #3 bolt head and found it was far shorter than spec, and that all the #2 bolt heads in his shop were actually longer.
4. Finally, after a thorough cleaning, you can see a small gap between the back of the barrel and the receiver. The front sight needs to be indexed with the rear sight, but the back of the barrel needs to butt up against the receiver. Whoever installed the barrel (Presumably with the action in a god-damned vice.) didn't do any milling, he just threaded the barrel in until the front and rear matched and left it at that.

Keep in mind, none of this was mentioned in the sales thread.
 
BUYING
I have bought and sold quite a few firearms on the EE.
I have had only three incidents when the rifle arrived and it was not in the condition I had hoped. To be fair, in the one case the photos did show (if one looked close) that the stock had been reshaped although one did have to know to look for it.
For the most part, I have bought some great rifles which in many cases exceeded my expectations.
I get a chuckle out of guys that list up a sparse WTS post where they are looking for $1000 or more for some rifle and offer little info with respect to condition, bore, pictures etc. It is a good indication of what will possibly be a disappointing experience.
I also twitch when I see guys put down little info and then add the "No picture hunters" clause.
A good friend recently bought a $1600+ antique described as being in good condition. When it arrived, it had a gaping 3/8" round hole in the forestock exposing the ejector spring. We reviewed the listing and, with hindsight, noticed that the offending hole was always just out of the photos.

SELLING
When selling, I generally ask the prospective buyer to call me as I find it easier to answer all questions and provide full disclosure on any known issues. It also serves as a bit of due diligence as to who I am selling to.
I have only had one sale which did not go smooth. After sending a whack of pics and talking to the guy for some time about an antique, he said he would take it. When he received it he was not happy so I refunded him less return shipping.
My only issue with selling is when guys ask for pics or PM for additional details and then do not take the time to send back a quick acknowledgement that they received the info and are in/out/undecided. Just common decency.

SUMMARY

I find the feedback system is not always accurate but I suppose it does serve as a warning bell. In many cases, buyers seem to not leave "negative" feedback when they have received a junker advertised as "excellent." I assume this is due to the fear of having their buyer rating hit with a retaliatory "negative." Resultingly, there a couple of dodgy sellers who I know peddle crap but still somehow maintain a 96% positive feedback score!

All in all I have had a great experience with the EE. It is a great resource which has opened up our National marketplace without charging any fees to do so.
 
Some (genuine/real) experiences as a seller:
...there's a scratch in the varnished finish of the 97 year old gun you sent me so I want half my money back....

....the head space of this 1909 Lee Enfield SMLE MkIII passes the military gauges but I handload and it's not good enough for me so I'm sending it back...

Horror stories of unrealistic buyers and sellers, (and trades are a whole new mess) is the knife that cuts both ways.

As a seller, often the buyer actually has limited knowledge of what he's actually buying and asks the wrong questions...Then is unhappy when he actually has the item in his hands.

As a semi knowledgeable buyer, buying is always a craps shoot as usually the seller doesn't actually know what he's selling, and the fact that it belonged to your grandpa does not automatically make it worth more money to me, and does not make your 10% condition gun a 90% condition gun...except in your mind.

In my view it's always a trade off, sometimes it's cash, other times it's goods.

I've done trades where both parties were extremely pleased, and others where both were marginally cheesed.

The mark of a good trade should be that both parties have the same reaction, if only 1 side is happy that's a bad trade. If both sides are unhappy, it was probably a fair trade, but both sides probably thought they were putting something over on the other...

Just as a side note, it's amazing how often "sanded and refinished" is interpreted as "new and unissued"...

Been burnt by that several times ;-(
 
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Tarrantula said:
If sellers are too lazy to figure out how to post picture I just pass right over the ad, unless it is a great deal on something I am specifically interested in, so probably 99.9% of the time. I think a lot of people are the same way. Really good way to lose interest in your sale, especially posting pictures is really quite straightforward.
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I skip over ads with no pics, but the worst is when the ad says "no pics because it looks like every other x rifle".
 
And then you get the Loser Buyer with Buyers Remorse that tells you he cracked the stock taking it apart and then tells you he can buy the refurbed SVT40 rifle cheaper elsewhere and then wants a full refund or $100 back if he keeps it!
 
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