I vote Glock for many reasons, but if you go M&P you can file down the bottom of the follower to make loading ten easier. Just put a piece of sandpaper on a flat surface and draw the bottom of the follower across, checking it periodically to see when you've removed enough.
Buying Polymer
- Thread starter Tongarirohiker
- Start date
heavenIsAlie
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Abbotsford
The GP guns are worth a look for sure, I'm a fan of them personally
http://www.irunguns.ca/ is a site sponsor and has had XDM magazines in stock, in Canada, for some time. As far as I am aware Powder River Precision, Inc. is the only real option for after market trigger kits - components for the XD-XDM.
I've shot Glock and I own a M&P9. I like them. But my latest Walther PPQ is nicer than both. Even with an Apex trigger job on a M&P the pistol's accuracy doesn't compare to the PPQ. I bought the PPQ thinking it would be similar but I always wanted one anyways. It's better and I like the paddle style mag release better as well. Keep your index finger on the frame and use your middle finger to release the mag. Quick and no twisting of the firearm to hit the mag release with your thumb. So far the PPQ is my favourite with my HK P7 PSP being right in there, yet not as practical. I bought mine from SFRC when they had the 8 percent off sale for less than $800. I would seriously consider adding this pistol to the list.
The XD series are not "safe action"/double action only guns, they are in fact a striker fired single action, something to consider. Keep in mind that the SR9 and M&P also have the useless PIA known as a magazine disconnect safety(or "disco"). Compare the features and specs side by side and narrow your field accordingly.
TDC
Buy the P-99 on the EE. You will never find a better fitting gun, and the quality is top notch.
or...be like everyone else and buy a glock....you can store it next to the 10/22
What's a "propper" fit? Explain in detail what that is.
tdc
Wrong Way
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Langley BC
Arsenal Strike One is next on my shopping list.
I got a M&P Pro an love it. not a big Glock fan don't like the fit in my hand.
I got a M&P Pro an love it. not a big Glock fan don't like the fit in my hand.
That's nice. What is a "propper" fit? You haven't detailed what comprises a "propper" fit. I think what you and others are referring to is "feel" which has nothing to do with propper selection of a firearm.
Tdc
Wrong Way
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
What you are describing is allowing the shooter to reach the trigger in such a way to ensure consistent trigger pull without assuming an 'H-grip' on the handle. Hard to do when you have tiny hands/short fingers when the grip is too big. (For example my small hand with a desert eagle).
I agree with fundamentals/skill acquisition but if you have tiny hands and gun is too big, hard to apply them. Massad Ayoob has mentioned multiple times in his writings cases where female FBI agents who failed with a 'too big gun' passed qualifications with gun that fit their smaller hands better so they could apply fundamentals. I believe it was a legal challenge that the FBI backed down from and they allowed the agents to use guns that were smaller.
I use the small grip on HK's and Walthers.
Read gundoggy's post, it has merit which yourself and others clearly don't understand. Of course most here won't be able to define propper trigger finger placement which means they still won't know what a "propper" fit should look like. Keep in mind that said grip and LOP are not required to apply the fundamentals, but they will definitely help.
The op has narrowed his choices to the XD line, Glocks, or a Ruger sr series. Suggesting anything else would indicate you don't understand the language used.
If we include other common service pistols with the OP's selection, the grip size and LOP on each is very nearly the same. Most pistols fit most hands with regards to their LOP. Again, this ideal fit is not necessary to shoot well.
Tdc
maybe you should reread because this statement validates what Wrong Way is saying:
"I agree with fundamentals/skill acquisition but if you have tiny hands and gun is too big, hard to apply them. Massad Ayoob has mentioned multiple times in his writings cases where female FBI agents who failed with a 'too big gun' passed qualifications with gun that fit their smaller hands better so they could apply fundamentals."
Not all of them do. The M&P9 that is part of the range kit doesn't have the magazine disconnect. It's a very nice pistol. The only criticism is the trigger. I have no issues shooting it with that trigger stock and don't notice any issues with it. However it is weird feeling when you dry fire it. I fired one with the Apex kit and polished up. It was very nice. But the PPQ just shoots more accurately and comes with a decent trigger.
I was considering one of those as well. Until I saw the price tag! The M&P9 kit I bought at Reliable's year sale (The one you line up for). Smoking deal. I paid $5xx something for it. I think it was $550. The PPQ I bought for a few under $800 (They had an 8% sale on which brought the price below the $800 mark before taxes/shipping). The Strike One I've heard is $1000 and seen them going for $1125 from someone bringing them in. Nice looking pistol, Italian made, different firing mechanism etc. But $1000+? No thanks. I'll wait until they are around $600. Plus I want to see a bunch more reviews. On paper the Beretta Storm PX4 looked great including it's different operating system. Shot one in real life and it was a POS. Balanced like crap, felt like a buck Rogers squirt gun, jammed a lot and the trigger sucked. No thanks. I'd want to insure the strike One isn't another PX4.
Reread it yourself, "...hard to apply them.". The FBI in the day was issuing autos chambered for 10mm which makes the grip very large, just like a glock 20 or 21. Pistols chambered in normal and common calibres like 9mm/40/45 fit most people. Again, an ideal fit is nice but not needed.
Tdc
Tongarirohiker
CGN Regular
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
Went to the range and shot a Glock, M&P and the XD. All three pistols shoot well. Here's my random thoughts out of this mornings range time. But I want to set the stage a bit. The reason I've singled out these pistols is that I want something on which I can work on my fundamentals. My CZ is a dream to shoot, and herein lies my problem, it's too easy. I don't want to shoot just that pistol well, I want a platform that will encourage me to shoot all pistols well. People's complaints are than the Glock feels like holding a 2x4, and that the feel of the trigger on the M&P is like a bowl of mashed potatoes. The anecdotal evidence is that these two pistols are not easy to shoot compared to platforms like the CZ 75 or the 1911. The other problem I have is that I have long fingers and a long palm, without being fleshy. This means that it can be very easy for me to overgrip a pistol, and do some funny things with my hand while pressing the trigger back.
I don't use a mag loader, I always load magazines by hand. My thumbs have some great callouses on them. With that, I actually found the Glock magazine the hardest to load. Rounds 7 through 10 were definitely harder to get in. However, it felt good in the hand. I have longer fingers and a long palm, but my hands aren't fleshy or beefy. As a result, it's very easy for me to over grip a pistol. As an aside, I actually had a golf instructor tell me that the best way for me to fix my game is to cut off my finger tips. The 2x4 felt very comfortable in my hands. I liked the trigger. I found it predictable and consistent. I understand why people love Glocks. Grouping was consistent with my 1911 and my CZ.
I was lucky enough to try the M&P without the disconnect and agree that dry firing it does feel different but not something that I cannot overcome. I found that all but the last round needed an extra shove to get a round in there but not impossible. Certainly not enough for me to say "f*** this ####" by the end of the session, and IMO easier than the Glock magazine. As for my performance, utter crap compared to the Glock. All of my shots were low of my POA. I think the reason for this is that the grip felt small in my hands. It felt like there was a big void in my grip at the backstrap and I must have been doing all sorts of fun acrobatics to get some sort of contact at that point. It was only when I slowed things down and really focused on the trigger finger that things got better. This says to me that the M&P has exposed the flaws in my technique.
I shot the XD just like the Glock. No fuss, no muss, rounds where I expected them. So based on price, availability of extra magzines and performance on the range, I am inclined to go with the M&P.
I don't use a mag loader, I always load magazines by hand. My thumbs have some great callouses on them. With that, I actually found the Glock magazine the hardest to load. Rounds 7 through 10 were definitely harder to get in. However, it felt good in the hand. I have longer fingers and a long palm, but my hands aren't fleshy or beefy. As a result, it's very easy for me to over grip a pistol. As an aside, I actually had a golf instructor tell me that the best way for me to fix my game is to cut off my finger tips. The 2x4 felt very comfortable in my hands. I liked the trigger. I found it predictable and consistent. I understand why people love Glocks. Grouping was consistent with my 1911 and my CZ.
I was lucky enough to try the M&P without the disconnect and agree that dry firing it does feel different but not something that I cannot overcome. I found that all but the last round needed an extra shove to get a round in there but not impossible. Certainly not enough for me to say "f*** this ####" by the end of the session, and IMO easier than the Glock magazine. As for my performance, utter crap compared to the Glock. All of my shots were low of my POA. I think the reason for this is that the grip felt small in my hands. It felt like there was a big void in my grip at the backstrap and I must have been doing all sorts of fun acrobatics to get some sort of contact at that point. It was only when I slowed things down and really focused on the trigger finger that things got better. This says to me that the M&P has exposed the flaws in my technique.
I shot the XD just like the Glock. No fuss, no muss, rounds where I expected them. So based on price, availability of extra magzines and performance on the range, I am inclined to go with the M&P.
Still alive
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rainy mosquito infested part of BC
^^ So, let me get this straight. You want to buy the gun that you shoot the worst?
I have no problem with everything you say about all the guns you've shot but that is the strangest logic for buying a gun I've ever heard. Good for you for wanting to improve your weakness though! TDC would approve!
Just don't post in 3 weeks about needing an Apex trigger group because the stock one sucks! LOL!
I have no problem with everything you say about all the guns you've shot but that is the strangest logic for buying a gun I've ever heard. Good for you for wanting to improve your weakness though! TDC would approve!
Just don't post in 3 weeks about needing an Apex trigger group because the stock one sucks! LOL!
