Buying second hand/used powder?

Atlasguns

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Hey guys. Brand new to reloading myself but the seller seems well versed and happy to help. Buying a lot of reloading items. A (hornady LNL progressive) press, dies, case cleaning/trimming items and a tumbler.

In the lot is the option to also include primers (cci/winchester), cases and a couple (~6) lbs of powder of varying types. Should i buy and avoid them for now until i can properly trouble shoot/assess their viability?

How does CGN feel about buying used powders?
 
It wont be "used". But second hand, sure. I've bought a lot over the years, usually from estate sales (and I expect that is what will happen to mine soon). Open the lid, if the seal is unbroken, you're good. If it already is open, smell it. Good powder smells different than bad. Sniff some of the good stuff you have at home and compare. As long as it passes the sniff test, it should work out fine. If you end up with some really old stuff, it can still be good, but sometimes finding data is difficult. If that's the case, post it here and I'm sure one of us will have data for it. - dan
 
Nearly all the old , second hand powder that I have purchased has been fine. Good advice above, with one addition, the two times I have encountered deteriorated powder, in addition to a sharp acidic smell it had fine red dust among the granules. Simple to see if you pour some out on a white sheet of paper.

And one more tip - only buy second hadn't powder that is in original cartons, not something that's in a jug without makers labels.
 
As above - the hesitation that I would have is do you trust that seller enough to actually have the powder that the label says is in that container? Some guys do not seem to get the significance of that and "top up" partially full ones with whatever is handy - perhaps to sell as a "full container" - its "gunpowder, isn't it?". Then using some previously opened stuff which passes that "sniff test", then still want to start with Start level loads and work up - do NOT want to take a buddy's word and just jump in at a high pressure level with a might be or might not be powder. I suppose the last part goes, even if you broke the factory seal - start Low and work up!!!
 
I would have to say most of us who have reloaded for any amount of time are not going to intentionally mix powders of different types. It's not impossible but it's unlikely.

I bought a fair bit of 2nd hand powder. If you're buying from an actual person who owned it and used it then I wouldn't worry too much. If you're getting it from an estate or a garage sale from non-reloaders then I might be somewhat more cautious because those people might not know better than to mix in the manner Potash described.
 
Apologies - it was the garage sale type purchases that I meant - as jethunter says, should be an entirely different issue if buying left over stuff from an active loader...
 
I've bought powders included in various reloading stuff, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. Bought 4lbs of 3031 & 3lbs were rust coloured and smelled like hades. Bought 6lbs of really old Bullseye and still loading it for pistol.
 
At a gun show just before Covid-19 kicked in, I purchased at a gun show 3x 500 grams of old Norma 203,[not 203B]
and 5x 500 grams of Norma MRP All were in perfect shape with no indication of deterioration. Bought for very little
money as well. Win, Win, Dave.
 
Have several times, as mentioned there are ways to check to see if it is turned or turning, otherwise you should be fine. I bought 22lb at an auction in sealed metal tins, every time i open another one i do all the sniff and visual checks to make myself feel ok about it.
 
I'd have no issue buying open box primers from someone...
Powder, I won't touch unless I've known you for a long time, and I trust your reloading practice, and there is enough of it to make it worthwhile.

Things that could possibly go wrong
- Wrong powder in the container
- Powder that "dried", will have a faster burn rate
 
Buy everything you think you're going to use. Primers, for sure. Cases, maybe. Powder, definitely if it's the type of powder you'll need. Original container only, any self labeled containers are a no go in my opinion. Check all powder as suggested above but inspect thoroughly if they come in metal containers.
 
It's been covered, and probably not much to add to the discussion, but I've got a fair bit of personal experience with buying and being given unused smokeless powder.

The element of risk is a possibility, low probability, but something to consider. The present component shortage has generated a fair number of sales of full and partial containers of unused powder. And the prices seem to be high. As a rule, smokeless powder does deteriorate with age, although at a very slow rate unless stored in less than ideal conditions.

It's been my experience that metal containers are a very poor storage container. The chemicals in the powder tend to react with the metal over time and the powder gets a rusty dust in it. I've heard of reloaders still loading with it, but I will not. I tried "cleaning" the powder but I never came up with a process that I felt comfortable with. The worst candidates are the rectangular IMR cans.

I've used old powder that was stored in the black anti static bags and packaged in a cardboard box, and never had an issue with them. Typically they are 8 # containeres of powder that Hodgdon sld years ago.

As time passes, new reloading data replaces the old data. It's not unusual to find that you may have to use old data for your old powder.

Bottom line, using old powder from dubious sources is something that I would not recommend for the inexperienced handloader. At the least, you should chronograph your loads, to confirm that the data you are using applies to your powder. I've found that I've had to change the charge and select a different primer for different ages of the same powder. Burn characteristics change, albeit very subtly, with time. Not a problem if you test.

I does become a mugs game, IOW, you get a load with a old or perhaps discontinued powder, and the load is very good. Then you run out of that powder, and luckily you find more. Unfortunately it doesn't work as well as the batch you had.

As mentioned, you may get powder in non original containers, my favorite is old tobacco containers, or powder containers with the original label crossed out and a hand written masking tape label half stuck on the side of the container. Or just a jar of powder that the owner says is IMR 3031 or some other name. Then there are the data powders, batches of powder sold as to be used with ###X data.

Personally, I won't as a rule pay retail for old powder. I have on occasion payed up, thanks to supply shortages. There has to be a cost benefit, because of the risks.

I've bought or been given, old made in Scotland 4831, 452AA, Trap 100, 571AA, Red Dot, Blue Dot, Reloader 7, Clays and WST. All were OK to use. On the bad was a bundle of IMR, 4320 and 4350, all rusty. They were free, so not out any $. I think I was the winner on average.

Be careful and cautious.
 
Yes all good advise. Given a full sealed can of BLUE DOT in old style cardboard container. SO, the blue dot s had faded and was a bit dry. Loaded lite charge into 12 gauge shotgun, AND kicked like hell lost sight in the eyes, for a few seconds, shoulder hurt, flash from muzzle, white lighting. Disposed of the rest.
 
Appreciate all the input guys! Read through every comment and feel more confident in the purchase now. The lot of reloading stuff is in perfect shape and all the primers, brass and powder look to be in great shape and well stored.

Look forward to digging into reloading further thanks to this community.
 
It's been covered, and probably not much to add to the discussion, but I've got a fair bit of personal experience with buying and being given unused smokeless powder.

The element of risk is a possibility, low probability, but something to consider. The present component shortage has generated a fair number of sales of full and partial containers of unused powder. And the prices seem to be high. As a rule, smokeless powder does deteriorate with age, although at a very slow rate unless stored in less than ideal conditions.

It's been my experience that metal containers are a very poor storage container. The chemicals in the powder tend to react with the metal over time and the powder gets a rusty dust in it. I've heard of reloaders still loading with it, but I will not. I tried "cleaning" the powder but I never came up with a process that I felt comfortable with. The worst candidates are the rectangular IMR cans.

I've used old powder that was stored in the black anti static bags and packaged in a cardboard box, and never had an issue with them. Typically they are 8 # containeres of powder that Hodgdon sld years ago.

As time passes, new reloading data replaces the old data. It's not unusual to find that you may have to use old data for your old powder.

Bottom line, using old powder from dubious sources is something that I would not recommend for the inexperienced handloader. At the least, you should chronograph your loads, to confirm that the data you are using applies to your powder. I've found that I've had to change the charge and select a different primer for different ages of the same powder. Burn characteristics change, albeit very subtly, with time. Not a problem if you test.

I does become a mugs game, IOW, you get a load with a old or perhaps discontinued powder, and the load is very good. Then you run out of that powder, and luckily you find more. Unfortunately it doesn't work as well as the batch you had.

As mentioned, you may get powder in non original containers, my favorite is old tobacco containers, or powder containers with the original label crossed out and a hand written masking tape label half stuck on the side of the container. Or just a jar of powder that the owner says is IMR 3031 or some other name. Then there are the data powders, batches of powder sold as to be used with ###X data.

Personally, I won't as a rule pay retail for old powder. I have on occasion payed up, thanks to supply shortages. There has to be a cost benefit, because of the risks.

I've bought or been given, old made in Scotland 4831, 452AA, Trap 100, 571AA, Red Dot, Blue Dot, Reloader 7, Clays and WST. All were OK to use. On the bad was a bundle of IMR, 4320 and 4350, all rusty. They were free, so not out any $. I think I was the winner on average.

Be careful and cautious.

I think the metal containers work fine - right up until the point the powder begins to break down and give off corrosive gases. The ferrous metal in the can reacts more readily with the corrosive gases from powder breakdown whereas the plastic and cardboard containers don't. The metal cans don't make the powder degrade any faster but they do make it more visible.
 
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Yes all good advise. Given a full sealed can of BLUE DOT in old style cardboard container. SO, the blue dot s had faded and was a bit dry. Loaded lite charge into 12 gauge shotgun, AND kicked like hell lost sight in the eyes, for a few seconds, shoulder hurt, flash from muzzle, white lighting. Disposed of the rest.

Similar but I had some Blue Dot that smelled funny but I really had nothing to compare it to. This was a few years ago when powder was short. I loaded some 38 special with it and they hardly went bang. I should have quit after the first squib but decided to get rid of these loads. I managed to but a bulge in a really nice revolver because I was not thinking straight. Now if I have any doubt about a powder I light it up on the back driveway and forget about it. I don't have any use for second hand powder today but there is probably lots of good stuff out there.
 
I spoke with a fellow hunter about 4 decades ago who bought some powders at a garage sale.
Before the fiasco ended, 3 - 30-06 rifles were ruined. Fortunately, no one was injured seriously.
One must exercise caution if the containers have been opened, or re-labled. Dave.
 
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