C1A1 Experts - C1 Rear Sight Question

T

The Wizard

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Sold my brother my spare C1 rear sight (yes, I took my brother’s money but I gave him a great deal). When he got it he said the “lock up in the different range positions was not very positive”. I told him that yes there is a very minute but noticeable amount of rotational play. He complained that “that play” will throw off his point of impact as he adjusted the sight to different ranges. He called it a “wandering zero problem”. I looked through my Canadian Forces manuals on the C1A1 and could find no reference to a problem with the C1 rear sight. Does anyone out there have any empirical data on the performance of the C1 rear sight? I have had good results with the sight on my C1A1(clone) but as long as I hit somewhere near center of mass on a silhouette at 600 meter I am happy. If I am looking for MOA accuracy I use my trick-out national match M1A.
 
I (fondly) recall that my C1A1 rear sight used to bounce off the rim of my helmet every time I fired my 4L6178. That silly disk would automatically revolve on it's own to my discovery, the battle zero would be set at 200m (MCpl would randomly inspect our rifles and give us pushups :D) by myself. Predictably upon inspection, it would rotate and I figured out that the NCO's inspected our boomsticks just to give us pushups (I did not mind the PT). ha ha ha Structured torture, since many of my NCO's happened to be ex-2CDO. A few paratroopers on this CGN site will recognize that moniker.

I don't miss that C1A1 platform. Not one bit. Like The Wizard said, "The M1A will shoot into a MOA predictably well." And next week I'm shooting a Service Rifle match with my M1 Garand. I'm over the AR experience.
 
Hungry said:
I (fondly) recall that my C1A1 rear sight used to bounce off the rim of my helmet every time I fired my 4L6178. That silly disk would automatically revolve on it's own to my discovery, the battle zero would be set at 200m (MCpl would randomly inspect our rifles and give us pushups :D) by myself. Predictably upon inspection, it would rotate and I figured out that the NCO's inspected our boomsticks just to give us pushups (I did not mind the PT). ha ha ha Structured torture, since many of my NCO's happened to be ex-2CDO. A few paratroopers on this CGN site will recognize that moniker.

I don't miss that C1A1 platform. Not one bit. Like The Wizard said, "The M1A will shoot into a MOA predictably well." And next week I'm shooting a Service Rifle match with my M1 Garand. I'm over the AR experience.
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Could the disc simply be worn so it has play? I miss those rifles.
 
The sight my brother got was in new condition and snapped into position, I thought, quite positively. It takes a conscious effort on the shooters part to rotate the sight to another range setting but some rotational play is inherent in the design. I contend the sight performs as designed/required (main BATTLE rifle versus TARGET rifle). My brother thinks as he change range setting he will not be sure which side of the target his shoots will hit.

Same problem exsist with C2 sights.
 
The back piece of the sight (the side that you can see while looking through it) puts tension on the sight disk to keep it from moving when you don't want it to. This piece can wear down with lots of use and has to be replaced once in a while. If the sight is new or near new condition this should not be a problem.
 
The Wizard said:
The sight my brother got was in new condition and snapped into position,
Same problem exsist with C2 sights.
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so its new then your bro has a faulty aperture disc retainer , try bending the retainer a bit if that dont work then your bro need to buy a new retainer , i think marstar has them or you can PM me.

also many retainers are damage when re-assembling the sight.
 
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I could never understand the logic in a sight on a battle rifle that would inconveniently "flop" over and not be visible. I think this is my only criticism of the C1/C2 - I personally would much rather have used the rear sight that the rest of the world went for (except our Antipodean cousins).

2L6331... I will miss her. She was my first.

Neal
 
First of all the rotational play is very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very smaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllll! But if you look really really really realy really really close you can see the sight disc move (less then 1/64 of an inch OH, I forgot for are northern brothers that is less then .4 mm). I contend IT AIN'T WORTH WORRYING ABOUT! My brother thinks IT WILL THROW HIS SHOTS ALL OVER THE TARGET! Am I correct or is he correct.
 
The Wizard said:
First of all the rotational play is very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very smaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllll! But if you look really really really realy really really close you can see the sight disc move (less then 1/64 of an inch OH, I forgot for are northern brothers that is less then .4 mm). I contend IT AIN'T WORTH WORRYING ABOUT! My brother thinks IT WILL THROW HIS SHOTS ALL OVER THE TARGET! Am I correct or is he correct.
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well... theoretically... if (for ease of math) we say it wiggles 0.4 mm and the distance between the front and rear sights is 1 m, then if you were shooting at 200 m range you could reasonably expect an error of 80 mm, or about 2.5 feet...

so, if it is really wiggling that much, I would be concerned...
 
80 mm divided by 25.4 mm/inch equal 3.149606299 INCHES. I knew there was a reason we in the States stuck with inches. Considering the Canadian Forces manual states "The firer must be able to achieve a 20-cm (8-in) group at 90 m (100yds)" I don't know if 3.15 inches matters.
 
The Wizard said:
80 mm divided by 25.4 mm/inch equal 3.149606299 INCHES. I knew there was a reason we in the States stuck with inches. Considering the Canadian Forces manual states "The firer must be able to achieve a 20-cm (8-in) group at 90 m (100yds)" I don't know if 3.15 inches matters.
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d'oh.... stupid cm... 80cm is 2.5 feet...
anyhoooo....
:runaway:
depends on what sort of accuracy you want, obviously...
if, at 100 m, (I originally said 200m) you want to achieve a 20 cm group, you would have to do so knowing that you were already facing a penalty of 4 cm.
i.e. you would otherwise be shooting a 16 cm group.

as you say, it probably doesn't matter anyway... the C1 is not exactly a target rifle... but given the numbers you quoted, the above is what sort of accuracy penalty you can reasonably expect (actually, it is probably a worst case penalty)
 
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