C1A1 Sniper Rifle
- Thread starter I Dont Care About You
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Tarrantula
CGN frequent flyer
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I have seen some of his other videos, he sure gets to shoot lots of neat stuff.
Its possible the barrel could be but the receiver certainly is not.
GunNutz's one and only, 36 hamon shooting a CDN FN-C1 (8L-Series)
Winona Rifle Range, Winona Ontario July 2002
D@m I miss those days shooting our C1's
In the video by Vintage Rifles above, his FN is possibly a British or Aussie L1A1 with CDN furniture as you can see the sand cuts in the bolt carrier. I imagine I could tell more by looking at the parts on his FN in the video, but I'm not worried as he is not really passing it off as an original C1-A1.
The first CDN FN's that were for sale way back when were genuine Canadian Arsenals Limited C1's - 60's 70's (Ganderite would be able to give you better information on these years), then along came the 80' and 90's - next batch of CDN FN's were the Ex-OPP-8L Series. There were also many imported Brit and Assuie L1A1's at the same time. I should know, I owned plenty of both at one time along with other manufactures from around the world, but they were not "Inch-Pattern" like the C1 and L1A1's.
One of the most accurate shooters that I privately owned at the time was a Rifle Factory Ishapore (RFI) FN.
Oddly enough, all I own now is a L1A1 with CDN furniture, my Mock C1, that I'm not allowed to bring to the range anymore.
Thanks Canada!
In case your interested in Canadian Arsenals Limited;
https://calibremag.ca/canadian-arsenals-limited-canadas-post-war-small-arms-experience-part-1/
https://www.mississauga.ca/wp-conte...s-Bombs-and-Bomb-Girls-Arsenal-Lands-2019.pdf
Winona Rifle Range, Winona Ontario July 2002
D@m I miss those days shooting our C1's
In the video by Vintage Rifles above, his FN is possibly a British or Aussie L1A1 with CDN furniture as you can see the sand cuts in the bolt carrier. I imagine I could tell more by looking at the parts on his FN in the video, but I'm not worried as he is not really passing it off as an original C1-A1.
The first CDN FN's that were for sale way back when were genuine Canadian Arsenals Limited C1's - 60's 70's (Ganderite would be able to give you better information on these years), then along came the 80' and 90's - next batch of CDN FN's were the Ex-OPP-8L Series. There were also many imported Brit and Assuie L1A1's at the same time. I should know, I owned plenty of both at one time along with other manufactures from around the world, but they were not "Inch-Pattern" like the C1 and L1A1's.
One of the most accurate shooters that I privately owned at the time was a Rifle Factory Ishapore (RFI) FN.
Oddly enough, all I own now is a L1A1 with CDN furniture, my Mock C1, that I'm not allowed to bring to the range anymore.
Thanks Canada!
In case your interested in Canadian Arsenals Limited;
https://calibremag.ca/canadian-arsenals-limited-canadas-post-war-small-arms-experience-part-1/
https://www.mississauga.ca/wp-conte...s-Bombs-and-Bomb-Girls-Arsenal-Lands-2019.pdf
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Here's my genuine 8L-series FN C1A1, the last production series with the removable Ejector (allowing replacement without having to trash an entire Upper Receiver) and Protective Foresight "Ears" (allowing replacement without having to trash an entire Gas Block). Mine shown here sports the rare Leitz Canada C1 Sniper Scope (305 manufactured), as demonstrated in the video and an FN C2A1 5/30 Magazine. I have most of the associated Individual Equipment including the Cleaning Kit, Grenade Launcher Attachment, Rubber Muzzle Cover, extra Magazines, 82-pattern Mag Pouches, Bayonet/Scabbard/Frog, and so on. Just missing the Sub-Calibre Kit (sold) and AN/PVS 502 "Starlight" Image Intensification Scope.
Here are the C1's Commonwealth Inch-Pattern "Brothers", starting with the British L1A1, sporting the later British "Pebble" Synthetic Furniture and Sight Unit Infantry Trilux (SUIT) 4x Optical Combat Sight along with a 5/30 L4A1 Bren Gun Magazine.
And here is the Australian (also New Zealand and Papua New Guinea) Lithgow-manufactured Australian L1A1 with its distinctive orange-tinged "Coachwood" Furniture.
And finally, for comparison we have a Metric-Pattern "cousin" to the Standard-pattern "Inch" rifles in the form of a Belgian Fabrique Nationale-manufactured G1 contract rifle to the German Bundeswehr, with whom it saw limited use during the early 1960s as a stop-gap NATO Battle Rifle while Germany awaited final development, production and fielding of the HK G3 rifle. This one is fitted with a commercial Scope and Mount as well as a 5/30 Metric Pattern Magazine.
Here are the C1's Commonwealth Inch-Pattern "Brothers", starting with the British L1A1, sporting the later British "Pebble" Synthetic Furniture and Sight Unit Infantry Trilux (SUIT) 4x Optical Combat Sight along with a 5/30 L4A1 Bren Gun Magazine.
And here is the Australian (also New Zealand and Papua New Guinea) Lithgow-manufactured Australian L1A1 with its distinctive orange-tinged "Coachwood" Furniture.
And finally, for comparison we have a Metric-Pattern "cousin" to the Standard-pattern "Inch" rifles in the form of a Belgian Fabrique Nationale-manufactured G1 contract rifle to the German Bundeswehr, with whom it saw limited use during the early 1960s as a stop-gap NATO Battle Rifle while Germany awaited final development, production and fielding of the HK G3 rifle. This one is fitted with a commercial Scope and Mount as well as a 5/30 Metric Pattern Magazine.
Bartok5, thanks for posting those pictures and information.
At one time I owned all the above that you have posted including a consecutive set of serial numbered 8L Series.
I also owned the Aussie C2's.
I really miss them all, but when they became closet princesses, I relieved them of duty and sold most of them off.
The thing I remember from my army days was the 8L Series always loosing one or both of the front sight wings.
The WPN-Techs used to always be cussing and RED Loctight them back on.
One of my last remaining L1A1's is a Singapore Police Force issue, but it is now sporting mostly CDN furniture and parts.
At one time I owned all the above that you have posted including a consecutive set of serial numbered 8L Series.
I also owned the Aussie C2's.
I really miss them all, but when they became closet princesses, I relieved them of duty and sold most of them off.
The thing I remember from my army days was the 8L Series always loosing one or both of the front sight wings.
The WPN-Techs used to always be cussing and RED Loctight them back on.
One of my last remaining L1A1's is a Singapore Police Force issue, but it is now sporting mostly CDN furniture and parts.
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You're asking Lee Enfield No4 MK1 Sniper and before the first generation C3 Sniper?
Myself the only version of these scopes that I ever saw were at the CFSEME Weapons School lockup in Borden and they where definitely not issued in the late 80's.
These scopes at the school were more or less a museum pieces in the lockup and they could be fitted to any C1 if I recall.
There were no designated C1 Sniper rifles, any C1 in it's day could adopt that scope for use.
Possibly they fell out of service in the mid 70's when the C3 was adopted?
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The book "Without Warning - Canadian Sniper Equipment of the 20th Century" by Clive Law states that the Ernst Leitz Canada (ELCAN) Model ELC-1088 was selected after a competitive trial in 1959. A contract modification to the Master Contract (CD544900) that governed the manufacture and delivery of 72,470 FN C1 Rifles called for 305 of the ELC-1088 to be provided to the Canadian Forces, designated as the "Sniper Scope, C1". Law notes that as of November 1960 the DND had received only 30 of the Optics on order. The 305 Scopes that were eventually produced entered service alongside the FN C1 Rifle. The Optics were withdrawn from the Regular Force units in. March 1976 and were ordered held in Reserve but with no new spares to be procured. By 1994 Law states that only 22 were left in stock with the remainder having been declared "beyond repair" over the years. It was requested that the remaining sights be sent to Connaught Ranges for Cadets to assist them in sighting their C11 and C12 rifles, which was apparently done. The C1 Sniper Scope officially left service in 1995.
Sorry for the long-winded response, but now you all have the definitive history of the C1 Sniper Scope, along with a few other interesting facts about the C1 service rifle. To answer the latter half of your question, yes - the C1 Sniper Scope served after the Lee Enfield No 4 Mk1* (T) was withdrawn from service and continued until the 334 Parker Hale model 1200TX rifles entered service in March 1976 as the "Rifle, C3". The C3 was fitted with the Kahles fixed-magnification 6x Telescopic Sight. That optic was replaced by the USMC-model Unertl fixed-magnification 10x Mil-Dot Telescopic Sight during the refurbishment program from "C3 Rifle" to "C3A1 Rifle" in late 1993.
Nice! I used to have an Aussie L2A1 fitted out with a Canadian Body Cover and C2 1000m Rear Sight. A little known fact is that those L2's were all Canadian Arsenals Ltd parts from the Barrel forwards. I have one of the 3 Converted-Automatic C1 SMGs known to be in private hands in Canada. I won't "out" the other owners, at least one of whom is active on this board. Here is mine, fitted with a removable Weaver (pre-Picatinny!) rail and a mini Red-Dot for rapid aiming. I won the Bowling Pin Match at one of John Hipwell's shoots with that gun back in the day when the government still trusted us to have responsible enjoyment with 9mm, semi-automatic firearms...
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fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
He built a franken C1A1 with an unknown reciever. He thus did not have a typical C1A1 you could find in a Canadian infantry Bn. What he had was more like the C1A1 that 'certain Cdn. rifle teams' from 'a certain Cdn. infantry regiment' were rumoured to show up at CFSAC with when that competition had the 'Bisley' format to the stages. A serving Cdn. sniper himself told me our C1A1's in standard condition were 4 moa rifles. When a certain officer who won CFSAC multiple times went public, he admitted he used 2, maybe 3 C1A1's that had out of spec barrels which had land diameters of approximately .280." Otherwise these rifles were like any other C1A1.
So the out of spec barrels by chance emulated Enfield or more likely Ballard rifling. According to this officer these out of spec rifles could hold around 2 moa or slightly better. This chap with his blueprinted rifle is under no CF constraint to keep his rifle identical to the Canadian Army 4 moa standard condition of 1985.
It goes to show how great the FAL was and is metric or imperial.
So the out of spec barrels by chance emulated Enfield or more likely Ballard rifling. According to this officer these out of spec rifles could hold around 2 moa or slightly better. This chap with his blueprinted rifle is under no CF constraint to keep his rifle identical to the Canadian Army 4 moa standard condition of 1985.
It goes to show how great the FAL was and is metric or imperial.
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Id like to submit some stuff for the show too
I couldnt get the photos in the order I was trying
There is a bit of glass reflection from them being in the case, sorry. Too much work for this morning to take everything out for photos. The phone takes reasonable photos. My editing capabilities on my, new to me, used computer arent that good. I have Windows 7 and associated programs.
Wish I could take as good of photos as Bartok.
1. AN PVS 502 night vision kit. Also used on the TOW, C2 and 50. Made by Varo in Texas, now ITT. I still really like playing with these. Great value for the money. Im getting to be pretty familiar with this unit. When compared with my PVS14, this thing is amazing for the time period and now cost. Highly recommended for any rifle. I can even mount this on my 10 22 along with any other rifle that has a Weaver or Pic rail. Yes its a bit big and heavy, but it works well. 3.4 power scope with an adjustable illuminated reticule. Ive got a couple other units with various reticules, ie. Israeli with the small cross hash marks and the US reticule for the PVS4 and M16 rifle. There is a bit of parts interchangeability between this 502 and the PVS4.
2. AN PAS 4 night vision with FN mount. As you can see, it has the humongous IR light and filter. It wasnt in the system long.
3. Portion of my Canadian wall with my 8L series and C1 SMG.
4. Bit of everything in this pic. .22 conversion. Im told these were made by HK. Leitz scope with can and accessories. The target behind it is for the .22 conversion, sighting for the FNC1. Blue inert, rifle grenade. Ive got a couple of these, so one of these days Id like to launch one. If anyone out there knows a good recipe for the blank round, please let me know.
To the left of the .22 kit is the MILES laser gear dedicated for the FNC1. The rubber 502 scope cover appears to have been locally made by a Mat Tech.
I couldnt get the photos in the order I was trying There is a bit of glass reflection from them being in the case, sorry. Too much work for this morning to take everything out for photos. The phone takes reasonable photos. My editing capabilities on my, new to me, used computer arent that good. I have Windows 7 and associated programs.Wish I could take as good of photos as Bartok.
1. AN PVS 502 night vision kit. Also used on the TOW, C2 and 50. Made by Varo in Texas, now ITT. I still really like playing with these. Great value for the money. Im getting to be pretty familiar with this unit. When compared with my PVS14, this thing is amazing for the time period and now cost. Highly recommended for any rifle. I can even mount this on my 10 22 along with any other rifle that has a Weaver or Pic rail. Yes its a bit big and heavy, but it works well. 3.4 power scope with an adjustable illuminated reticule. Ive got a couple other units with various reticules, ie. Israeli with the small cross hash marks and the US reticule for the PVS4 and M16 rifle. There is a bit of parts interchangeability between this 502 and the PVS4.
2. AN PAS 4 night vision with FN mount. As you can see, it has the humongous IR light and filter. It wasnt in the system long.
3. Portion of my Canadian wall with my 8L series and C1 SMG.
4. Bit of everything in this pic. .22 conversion. Im told these were made by HK. Leitz scope with can and accessories. The target behind it is for the .22 conversion, sighting for the FNC1. Blue inert, rifle grenade. Ive got a couple of these, so one of these days Id like to launch one. If anyone out there knows a good recipe for the blank round, please let me know.
To the left of the .22 kit is the MILES laser gear dedicated for the FNC1. The rubber 502 scope cover appears to have been locally made by a Mat Tech.
