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lol I am just waiting for the REMF remarks, as well as references to "video games" lol
C7 or M16 for CQC
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lol I am just waiting for the REMF remarks, as well as references to "video games" lol
While searching for the impossible perfect weapon for all applications, wouldn't a configuration such as the Tavor (or any bullpump) be a best compromise, longer barrel for range and short package for enclosed areas ???
While not having used a C7 in combat, I do agree that the length makes it awkward to negociate corners, it works but it does raise issues.
While not having used a C7 in combat, I do agree that the length makes it awkward to negociate corners, it works but it does raise issues.
Only problem with most bullpups (at least all the side ejecting bullpups) is that when switching from right to left handed when rounding corners (if you're so inclined), you're going to eat some hot brass. KelTec's RFB solves this problem, as does the P90.
hugehodge83
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- Halifax NS
I think thats what the Israelis have been trying to accomplish with the build. I am not an expert on the Tavor and havent handled one as of yet... but for me it seems like it may cause some complications due to a fixed length of pull and the fact that transfering to your weak shoulder would give you a "brass breakfast" means that although it is a nice tight package it may not be best. IMHO
unless you're using the "shortest" notch in the ar/m16 series, the lop really isn't an issue- a lot of guys used to " build up' the shoulder area with socks,watchcaps, ,rolled up t-shirts, whatever, rather than adjust the weapon- typically, they would fit in between one of the 4 notches - one would be too short, the other too long- in cqb or whatever you want to call it, it's the LENGTH of barrel exposed that gives the problems- the smg was really designed for cqb in the purest sense, then possiblly the 223 bullpup
Wow a lot of you guys commenting on this thread really shouldn't be commenting on this stuff because you really do not have a clue. For the most part you guys talking military, I can tell 99% of you are not Infantry and probably not even in a combat trade and if you are I know for a fact you do not get enough practical and in depth training on these subjects to be discussing and "teaching" others about it, let alone the "air force" and "NAVY" guys who are putting there two cents in. For you who are military, if I remember correctly in BMQ one of the big things they push is do not talk about what you don't know. And all you guys talking about the elcan for room clearing and "gun fighter" crap you definitely do not have any experience or real training in the subject because you would know you do not use the elcan, nor do you even bring it to that set of training, you bring your issued flip-up iron sights and whatever other close quarter sights you like depending on your Company SGM rules.
The best gun for any application is the one you've trained with for hours and hours that you know better than you do yourself. There's no point taking an M4 or MP5 into a CQB if you've never fired the damn thing in your life.
If all you've got is an M16 or C7, and thats all that you know, then use it!
Afterall, the best gun for any job is the one that goes bang when you need it to!
If all you've got is an M16 or C7, and thats all that you know, then use it!
Afterall, the best gun for any job is the one that goes bang when you need it to!
exactly, in my day it was the fnc1/fnc2 & smg. then the c7 & c9 first configuration. we did ok. the fella's in the 40's & 5o's did very well with the 303, bren & sten. maybe it is my generations fault? the fella's i trained are now training & leading you.
I have had a watermelon thrown at my LAV!
Having never used an m16 I can't comment on its effectiveness, however on my Common Army Phase we had 3 UOI instructors and managed to snake a week of urban ops training out at destiny's doorway and dodge village (for those whom are acquainted with the niceties of Gag-town). IMHO it feels like the C7 was not designed for CQB (when compared to a C8), however the addition of a telescoping butt stock made things a little easier, we also removed our Elcans and used CQB iron sights for the whole week and for drills on the range, made acquisition of targets a much more pleasant task. And on an unrelated note the C7 is MUCH better then the C9 for CQB, that was an experience I don't wish to repeat as holding the gunfighter (if thats what they still call the position these days) position with a C9 in the shoulder makes my back cry like a little girl.
can't forget dbied's (donkey bourne) winz and yes saw a case of that. and to answer your question hugehodge pretty much got it right although if you are looking through your c79 at ranges less than 25 you need some serious instinctive shooting range time. the battle sights work ok in theory however something that stands out more to the eye would be much better.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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Thats the problem NS, we never took BMQ, hell I am still not SQ qualified as my OPs O reminded me yesterday. Well maybe one day.
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While I agree that people shouldn't be posting things they really have no way of knowing, the end of your post is NOT correct.
In the real world, you can't always just "take off/not bring" your C79 because you don't like it. If you are 100% certain of close quarters only engagement then it is possible. For some training, iron sights are used, but not by me, and not by anyone that works for me. Some CQB drills are much easier without an elcan, some just take practice (keep your eyes open, teach your brain to merge the two images). In the real world, you don't take your elcan off while you are stacked up outside of the door and then put it back on once you have cleared through, so you need to learn how to deal with the slight disadvantage optics have in a close environment vs. the major advantage optics have at 100m plus.
Not everyone will agree, but they don't have to, they just have to NOT post "you really do not have a clue" about random internet info and realize they haven't been everywhere and done everything.
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Well, we have all pounced back in fourth on each others comments and who has training and who doesnt...and who was a reservist and who was reg force and SF And all this, BUT, back to the orginal point.....
Are there Any thoughts and opinions on the M16 or the C7 in room clearing ops (or CQB or CQC or FIBUA as old timers call it or whatever else armchair commandos can some up with).......
And like I said, the C7, C7A1, and C7A2, it was alright for me (You have to remember, old timers used FN Rifles!), It was only in training, and no real lead was flying back at me, but I think I have some valid points to pass on, it worked,
but as RMC said and I have experienced, the C8 is a light weight and just better.
And yes, if lead is flying around compared to blanks and sim rounds, obviously your experiences may vary. Something tells me the last thing on your mind would be whether you had a M16 or C7!
You train with what you have and thats that, it would have been nice to have a C8, but only the odd time section commanders and officers have them or SF of course. SO you deal with it, train with it, and thats it.
----------------LIKE ONE GUY SAID ON HERE, ITS NOT WHAT YOU HAVE, ITS WHAT YOU DO WITH IT-----------
Are there Any thoughts and opinions on the M16 or the C7 in room clearing ops (or CQB or CQC or FIBUA as old timers call it or whatever else armchair commandos can some up with).......
And like I said, the C7, C7A1, and C7A2, it was alright for me (You have to remember, old timers used FN Rifles!), It was only in training, and no real lead was flying back at me, but I think I have some valid points to pass on, it worked,
but as RMC said and I have experienced, the C8 is a light weight and just better.
And yes, if lead is flying around compared to blanks and sim rounds, obviously your experiences may vary. Something tells me the last thing on your mind would be whether you had a M16 or C7!
You train with what you have and thats that, it would have been nice to have a C8, but only the odd time section commanders and officers have them or SF of course. SO you deal with it, train with it, and thats it.
----------------LIKE ONE GUY SAID ON HERE, ITS NOT WHAT YOU HAVE, ITS WHAT YOU DO WITH IT-----------
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